So if my cousins children are first cousins once removed, then what are second cousins? Are they the grand children of my great aunts and Uncles? Man, that last sentence is still making my head spin. I need a chart for this.
Yes, second cousins would be the great-grandchildren of your great-grandparents down a different family line, which is the same as ‘grandchildren of great-aunts or great-uncles.’ 
Look at it this way. If first cousins each have children, the children are each other’s second cousin. Then their children are each other’s third cousin. And their children are each other’s fourth cousin. Etc.
–Cliffy
spin, spin, spin…
Thanks, I get it now.
One presumes that your comment is in regard to What’s the term for your cousin’s children?. One also notes that it is a Cecil column, and not a Staff Report.
I’ll notify someone.
The key is the common ancestor. If the closest link is two generations back (i.e. a grandparent), you and the other person are first cousins. If the ancestor is a grandparent to you, but a great-grandparent for the other person, the two of you are first cousins, once removed. If the common ancestor is a great-grandparent for each of you, you are second cousins. If the ancestor is your grandparent, but the other persons great-great-grandparent, you are first cousins, twice removed.
As a general (heh) rule, choose the person who is “closer” (in generations) to the common ancestor. Two generations = “first”, three generations = “second”, etc. If the second person is “further” in generations, add one “removal” for each generation.
It’s slightly easier to understand with a table such as this one.
Nitpick: To you, the other person is a first cousin once removed. To the other person, you are a second cousin once removed.
Nitpick: To you, the other person is a first cousin, twice removed. To the other person, you are a third cousin, twice removed.
“Xth cousin” indicates how far back is the nearest common ancestor, counting from oneself.
“N times removed” indicates how many generations apart you are, counting from one’s own generation.
mbh, I’ve always heard the cousin relationship to be symmetrical, such that if X is my first cousin once removed, then I’m X’s first cousin once removed as well. Can you show any support for your interpretation?
Nitpick: this is completely incorrect.
Contrary to that geneological table, and Cecil’s column, a lot of dictionary definitions include that first cousins once removed also can be known as second cousins. See dictionary.com, which reflects the Ame.Her.Dic. entries.
Because of the ambiguity, such usage is disappearing–and there is a lot of people who would claim that such usage was and is wrong, regardless of the past.
Chronos, the relationship is only symmetrical if you and your cousin are the same number of generations from the common ancestor. (Nth cousin, with an implied “zero times removed”.)
If you are from different generations, the “N times removed” will be symmetrical, but the “Nth cousin” will always be different.
Descendants of your grandparent:
- aunt/uncle
- 1st cousin
- 1st cousin once removed
- 1st cousin twice removed
- 1st cousin thrice removed
- 1st cousin four times removed
- 1st cousin five times removed
Descendants of your great grandparent:
- great-aunt/grand-uncle
- 2nd cousin once removed
- 2nd cousin
- 2nd cousin once removed
- 2nd cousin twice removed
- 2nd cousin thrice removed
- 2nd cousin four times removed
Descendants of your great-great-grandparent:
- great-great-aunt/great-grand-uncle
- 3rd cousin twice removed
- 3rd cousin once removed
- 3rd cousin
- 3rd cousin once removed
- 3rd cousin twice removed
- 3rd cousin thrice removed
My source: Encyclopedia Americana, the article under “Genealogy”.
That doesn’t agree with APB’s link, which is symmetric. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it used before–usually, the common usage is symmetrical. That system avoids some ambiguity, but introduces others–for instance, it shows that the grandparent of your second cousin once removed is also your second cousin once removed (whose grandparent is not your cousin, but your great grandparent).
As I said, there are different conventions. You just have to be clear which convention that you are using.
I believe the technically accurate term for your cousins’ kids is “those little sh*ts”… :dubious: