According to this study, COVID-19 is causing longer term neurological problems in a huge percentage of survivors.
When I have more time, I’ll see if I can’t poke some holes in the methodology because I really want this to be crappy research. In the meantime, I posted separately from the breaking news thread as it probably warrants some discussion.
Post covid neurological complaints are common in my patients right now, that’s for sure. I’ve seen well over 2 dozen complaining of being ‘foggy’ and having trouble remembering things like their locker combinations, passcodes, etc. They’re all at least 4 months out from their covid infections, and many also have elevated liver and muscle enzymes.
Good luck poking holes, the Lancet is a pretty top shelf publication.
It wouldn’t be the only virus to have an effect like this.
I’m waiting for the studies in a couple of years for the effects of COVID on embryos and fetuses whose mothers had COVID, or possibly even had asymptomatic COVID while pregnant.
Nothing obvious so far. I was really hoping for something like the “Surgisphere” papers, where the underlying data was unreliable, as I’m aware of the Lancet’s rep.
This is going to really suck for a long time if true.
Can you elaborate on this?
Like, with other viruses, is the effect temporary or permanent?
A lot of viruses that are not thought of as typically invading neural tissue can do so, and when they do, the tissue sometimes does not recover.
Chickenpox, for example. I lived at Gallaudet University for a year, so I’ve met people deaf from just about every cause you could think of, and I know a couple of people who became deaf after a bout of chickenpox. Turns out that chicken pox is generally thought of as benign, but it turns out that while it very rarely invades neural tissue, it can invade the auditory nerve, the optical nerve (even rarer, but there are a few cases). It also appears to be one of the viruses that can cause autonomic neuropathy, a condition where a number of systems that are not under a person’s conscious control-- digestion, blood pressure, pupil dilation, bowel and bladder control. Again, rare, but several viruses can cause this.
I also know of a case where adult chickenpox is blamed for male sterility. The guy had children already, so not born sterile; caught chickenpox from one of the kids, was very ill, because, adult, and couldn’t conceive with his wife afterwards; a sperm count showed that he was sterile. He had no other illnesses, and no injuries to the groin.
The effects of maternal Rubella and Zika are well-documented, and the seriousness of adult mumps, as well as the possibility of measles encephalitis, which usually shows up within six weeks of recovery, but can take several year-- and is always fatal.
I know there’s some research going on now to see if a maternal virus that is asymptomatic in adults might cause some types of autism.
So it’s not unreasonable to wonder what COVID could cause down the road.
Just what the world needs - more stupid people.
It’s been a year since I had suspected Covid and I still get a foggy head occasionally. It’s nothing too terrible but I’ve not been 100% right since then. Really hoping this is not permanent…
Can you elaborate on this?
Yes. The “Spanish 'flu” of 1918-21. That also had neurological effects. Details in the medical publication of your choice, or the ever-helpful Wikipedia.
Some of us still remember MMR vaccination and the role of the Lancet. And the post-hoc justification that they were in competition for readership.
You don’t even have to consider direct viral damage: lots of people have had major hypoxic events with COVID.
Lots of people never fully recover mentally from heart failure events.
Note that by far the #1 brain disease in the study is anxiety/mood disorder.
Kind of hard to “control group” your way to a fair sample on that one. Everyone has heard of COVID. The COVID group is going to REPORT higher levels of anxiety/mood disorder. How do you control for that in a study?
Just wanted to throw my two cents out there I had covid and I’m certain I’m more mentally fucked up than before and my body is breaking down all my joints are popping cracking that never did before etc etc
Also after a year plus of stress and isolation during the pandemic the rates of anxiety and mood disorders (and sleep issues) are higher across the board, not just for people who had covid.
And what is “fogginess” in a post-covid sense that makes it different from how a person who is covid-free but suffering situational depression in reaction to their life being upended feels?
'Zactly.
I definitely haven’t had COVID and by and large have had a better pandemic than many who’ve suffered a lot of dislocation. I’m not much emotionally worked up about it either. But I sure feel pre-occupied and forgetful a lot more than I remember I did 18 months ago.
I’m also to an age where another candle on the cake has more impact than it did when I was 25. How much is that a factor, especially since the likelihood of long COVID is also at least a little age-correlated.
Coronavirus particles can reach the brain through the olfactory nerves.
Given that it can ride the nerves into the brain, and once there is not going to sit quietly, some kind of neurological damage is to be expected in those unlucky enough to have the Sars-CoV-2 in their brain tissue. WAG: Any illness can cause neurological symptoms merely by upsetting the body’s normal chemical / hormonal balance. The brain is a complex and delicate organ that is particularly susceptible to imbalances. Case in point: I am definitely not at my mental best when experiencing acid indigestion and bloating.
Sorry for the bump. But not really cuz I’m an ass. My Missus got it bad in April 2020. When the sickness was over, and when her hair stopped falling out, she was vexed with inexplicably low O2 sat, tachycardia, a few other things, and relentless fatigue, attention deficits, reduced mental processing speed, poor short term memory, and confusion. It cost her her career. She was examined by a neurologist who got zero positive test results but who also noticed behavioral changes from when he’d treated her previously for migraines; and a neuropsychiatrist who identified damage to various bits of her brain (give me a break, it was many months ago and I’m not a scientist). She’s still not back to normal, but she is relearning how to solve problems.
How’d her brains get damaged? Well apparently the little virus has a couple tricks to get past the blood brain barrier (again, not a scientist) and if it does it raises hell.
The spike protein alone causes problems
COVID-19 virus enters the brain, research strongly suggests: A new study shows how spike protein crosses the blood-brain barrier – ScienceDaily
Of course, United Healthcare doesn’t believe a word and have denied her disability claim. That’s a whole 'nother Oprah and not really germane to the OP, but I just thought I’d toss it out there as a cute bit of trivia.
Inigo, I’m so sorry. Thank you for this important information (yes, n=1, but I think it’s helpful for all of us).
It is important info, I wish I understood it all better than I do but my own mind has been softening for over a decade now. It’s bad enough that a good bout of COVID makes influenza look like a sniffle (10-14 days I think she lived with 102+ fever). But public figures who downplay the disease, and methods of mitigating it, are very directly causing crippling injuries to a lot of people who either follow their advice or become infected by someone who has. At this point I no longer view COVID as a disease, but as a biological weapon deployed against us by members of our own government. They may not have grown it in a lab, but those who oppose masks, school closures, vaccines, etc. are of the same ilk as those who handed smallpox blankets to the Native Americans.
And now I sound crazy and have politicized the thread. That’s life.
Thank you for sharing this important information. Your anger is understandable. A friend who lives in anti-vaxx/anti-mask central and got a breakthrough case of Delta sounds much like you do. She had COVID early in the pandemic and was in hell for two months–said easily 5x as bad as the worst flu she ever had. Got vaxxed and still got Delta, albeit a mild case compared to round 1 pre-vaxx. She is infuriated and blames each and every covidiot and the state and local govern covidiots.
I hope your wife continues to improve.