Covid booster shots, news and opinion

The Quarantine Zone
#41

Yes, that’s why that’s a short term answer. Bloomberg reports that there have already been about 5.7B doses of vaccine given out. All the companies that made those are still doing it, and more are coming in line. In particular, Novavax says it will make 2B doses next year. That’s a cheap vaccine that stable in an ordinary fridge and is about as effective as the mRNA vaccines. So another 8B+ doses next year, many of which are suitable for less developed parts of the world.

So by this time next year, there should be plenty of vaccine to go around, although no don’t we’ll still have places that don’t get it, either because the little don’t want it or for logistical reasons. (I bet somewhere will be at eat in a way that keeps vaccines out, for instance.)

So I’m curious what the recommendations will be then.

#42

Is lying to the CDC illegal?

I got my booster a few days ago. Medication I’m taking qualified me, but just barely. Honestly, I would have checked “yes” to the immunocompromised question regardless.

There were many yes/no questions and I just rapidly checked the correct boxes. I didn’t see any warnings that an incorrect answer could mean jail time.

#43

I will say that I’m of the opinion that people getting unauthorized boosters strengthens the arguments of the unvaxxed. If the individual knows what’s best in that circumstance, why not every circumstance?

#44

No it doesn’t.

#45

It strengthens the argument that personal choice, people’s control over their own health is important. It absolutely does.

#46

Well, I believe that a person SHOULD have a lot of control over their own health.

I saw a great line about mandatory vaccination, though. It was from some old judicial ruling. It compared walking around when potentially infectious to walking around randomly punching at anything near you. It also included the line about your freedom to swing your arms ends where the other person’s nose begins, or something like that.

#47

There is nothing untrue in this statement. People should have control over their own health and I’ll butt out of it. Until it affects mine. In other words, now. So no, it doesn’t strengthen the arguments of the unvaxxed.

There is not a single valid study, finding, presidential proclamation or anything else of that nature which has so much as given an iota of credence to the arguments of the unvaxxed. It doesn’t really matter, as they’ll make up whatever they want to justify their behavior, but nothing those of us on the side of science have done has strengthened their arguments. More fodder that they twist is not the same as strengthening.

So again, “No it doesn’t.”

#48

There are also no studies that say that people should be going rogue and getting “boosters” when they have not been authorized to do so. Yet people are doing that. The best argument I have seen is “well it doesn’t hurt.” Except that apparently it could hurt, because apparently too soon a booster does nothing, you’d be better off waiting until you are told to do so.

Covid is catholic on how it treats people. I agree that people should not be making their own decisions, because it doesn’t work with infectious disease. Covid doesn’t care what you think. I want to train people in this line of thinking. The argument is that “I need to listen to the experts, we all need to do the same because that’s how infectious disease works.” I do not think that people going out and lying to medical personnel because they themselves think it’s time for a booster plays into that argument. It plays into the argument that “I should decide how to best treat my body.” That does play into the antivaxx line of thinking, because it’s an argument for personal freedom. Given that the unauthorized boosters are providing little to any benefit, I don’t approve of them, and people should stop lying to get them.

#49

I think what you are trying to say is that someone getting an unapproved booster uses the same line of reasoning as someone not getting vaccinated at all.

This is not the same thing as “plays into the argument”. I think DMC is disagreeing with something you didn’t intend to say.

#50

You’re correct, that’s what I am trying to say. It is the same line of reasoning.

As a society, we will benefit far, far more from getting an unvaxxed person vaxxed than from a booster line jumper lying to get another shot. By a hundred fold at least I would reckon. I want to keep arguments simple as possible. I want to minimize the personal freedom line of argument. So if an unvaxxed goes “what about the people getting unauthorized boosters” I’m not going to be on the lying line jumpers’ side. I want to emphasize the importance that everyone does this. I want to minimize the personal freedom line of reasoning.

#51

This really is the same as driving a car. The most important thing to do is be predictable. Being predictable is following laws and guidelines just like everyone else.

#52

[NOTE: I never meant for this to get so long. TL;DR, I guess would be: 1. sometimes lying might be an ethical thing to do, and, 2. I’m immuno-compromised and I almost lied to get third jab and I’m fine with that.]

As for lying to get a third dose (not puzzlegal but folks in general) I can see where people could feel it’s an “ethical lie” to tell. For instance, someone could feel that everything’s gone to hell with so many anti-vaxxers so they must do whatever they can to increase their survivability. This is a bit like the ethics of stealing food when you’re family’s starving and you have no other recourse.

Another example was me (almost). I am very immuno-compromised (I say ‘very’ because I am on rituximab. If you read enough studies re: outcomes for folks on various immune compromising drugs you’ll find that rituximab is the poster-child for “Very Worst Drug for Ravaging Your Immune System” so after MUCH reading of journal articles, etc., I was prepared to get a third shot a month or so ago (I had Moderna doses in April and May) when the general medical opinion was that those shots really wouldn’t work very well since I was only 3 months out from my last rituximab infusion. Better to get vaxxed 8 months to a year after the last infusion.

I knew that at the time I was jabbed but the supply was so tenuous everyone said “Go ahead. Just get the shot now while you can.” I thought, and told my doctors, that I would but I was for sure going to get re-vaxxed later after 8 or 10 months had passed.

FF to a month ago when the time was right, I asked my doctor about getting a third shot and he was very dismissive of it and even called the doctors who were recommending that “quacks”. Pissed me right off and I was going to go lie and get the shot anyway when a week or so later the (FDA? CDC? BMI?? ASCAP??) okayed third shots for immune compromised (BTW, it’s not a “booster” in my case, IMO, rather it’s a “do-over” or perhaps just the appropriate dosing regimen to begin with for people in my situation). So I wouldn’t need to lie. But it would have been ethically OK if I had needed to lie, IMO.

I still haven’t gotten the third shot because it’s a dilemna. I want the shot NOW because I am so unprotected, but, I know that as more time passes (from my last RTX infusion in January) my immune B-Cells will are getting more plentiful so the vax will be more effective.

Truth is, if it turns out I once again got the shot when my B-Cells were not at an effective level then I would plan to get yet another shot (4th) when they have better re-populated. Probably have to lie for that, hope it’s not necessary.

#53

I’d generally agree (says the guy with a Pennsylvania Medical Marijuana card with a PTSD diagnosis).

#54

This seems like the sort of thing where I would say you should seek out a second opinion, if feasible.

~Max

#55

Oh god no, you’ll strengthen the arguments of the anti-vax crusaders. Or something.

#56

While closer to reality, still not true. One uses actual reasoning (at least most do, I’m sure there are idiots who stumbled onto the correct choice), the other looks for excuses. I don’t think they’re equivalent in any way.

Correct. The people doing the right thing, even those who might be making their own decisions, aren’t playing into the arguments of selfish assholes who are going to do what they are doing no matter what anyone else does, says, or proves. Hell, some of them continue to toe the line as they or their own loved ones lay dying in the hospital. There is no value in being concerned about “playing into their arguments” as their arguments are worthless drivel and completely mutable as needed. The rest of us can continue to make rational, thoughtful choices, while they continue to do their damnedest to kill themselves and everyone around them.

#57

They are stepping down because they said the data is not in yet on boosters, and the Biden administration overrode them.

Follow the science, people.

#58

Can you point to the place in the article where this is mentioned so that we can discuss what it actually states?

#59

It looks like CNN left that detail out. I originally read it in Politico, but CNN was the first thing that cme up when I re-Googled it and I used it thinking it would have the same info. Sorry.

Try this:

The whole article is very interesting.

#60

So a former official is telling us why newly retiring officials are leaving? Was this former official a Trump appointee, perhaps? Did he explain how he had insider knowledge while not being an insider?

A current official states that they left over key differences with Peter Marks. Is there a reason to believe that Peter Marks doesn’t follow the science? Feel free to explain to me how he is a representative of the Biden administration.

Is it possible they left over rushed boosters? Sure. Have they made any statements along those lines? Not that I’ve seen. Do I trust a former official more than a current one and should I give credence to either over the word of the people leaving? Has anyone asked them why they are leaving? What was their answer?

Or you can skip all of that silliness and tell us why we shouldn’t use boosters, based on this science that you follow. That might be a perfectly reasonable argument without all of this speculation and supposition from unnamed sources, some of whom aren’t even affiliated with the organization.