CPS and constitutional rights in the USA?

Many Court decisions have held that it is a fundamental liberty interest for parents to have care and control of their biological children. The most recent big one:

This. Don’t talk to CPS workers without a lawyer or don’t let them in without a warrant. They will take your kids and let the courts sort it out.

Just a note here, in Missouri more than 90% of reports to Children’s Services each year are found to be unsubstantiated (warning pdf.) It’s not like there are roving gangs of social workers looking for any excuse to put kids in foster care.

In the county my wife works in, they get about 80,000 calls to the CPS hotline every year, of which about 60,000 are investigated. Of those 60,000, only 350 reports lead to legal court ordered removal of children. In order for a removal to occur, a judge has to sign a protective custody warrant or a police officer issues a juvenile contact report. Even after the child is detained, within 72 hours, all parties must be in court and prove that CPS has legal grounds for detention. 60 days after that hearing, you have another hearing, where the legal burden is higher, and CPS has to prove they have legal jurisdiction over the case and the safety threat to the child still exists.

CPS has to investigate so many cases they are only going to pursue cases they believe meet grounds for removal and the abuse and neglect is likely to occur again. For isolated incidents, voluntary services are offered.

I worked with CPS people (Data Processing support) years ago.

Basically, they use their experience to avoid this. It happens all the time, and the workers get pretty good at identifying bitter ex-spouses, divorced people out to get a point up in custody battles, etc. The workers used to say that about 3/4ths of their tip calls were somebody trying to ‘get’ somebody else.

But they can’t just ignore such calls, because many of their real abuse/neglect cases are originally exposed by tips from ex-spouses, etc. They just get pretty good at telling malicious tips from actual abusive/neglectful situations.

The conduct suggested by some here (refusing to talk to them, to let them in the house, to talk to the kids) would raise all kinds of red flags to the CPS worker. And it’s pointless – they will show up at the kids school the next day and talk to the kid anyway, and the school must let them do so. They may even show up there with a warrant already. And they’ll get one easily – Judges are afraid of headlines like “For murdered child, CPS workers tried to get protection warrant, but Judge X refused”.

Correct. They will likely easily get a warrant. But the problem with cooperation is the danger of saying something unwittingly “incriminating.” I’m a new lawyer, but in my experience with the child abuse and neglect system, things start going as Robert_Columbia described above. If you make a comment that is misconstrued, it will be in court pleadings for years.

Yes, it will be an extra hassle. Yes, be polite to the CPS worker (some are wonderful; some are just this side of Satan himself), but if the CPS has any suspicion that you have done something wrong, refuse to talk to them and hire a lawyer. It can literally mean the difference between keeping your kids and losing your kids.

The thing is (according to my wife) if your kid shows up at school with bruises, someone reports it to CPS and say you don’t want to talk to CPS because as people mentioned you don’t want to somehow inciminate yourself with your answers, they are going to report that you refused to talk to them/let them in.

The next time someone calls in to CPS about your kid, you are going to be under much greater suspicion because a pattern is being established (kid has bruises, parents refuse to explain) and it will be easier for CPS to obtain a warrant.

Again, in many counties CPS has such massive caseloads they don’t have the time to harass innocent people and railroad them. They are going to pursue cases they feel the most likely can prove abuse to the court. In situations with bitter exes or people getting railroaded, my wife is having to take time away from other cases where the parents are much more obviously beating, neglecting or molesting their kids to find out whether or not some angry ex-wife’s accusations hold any water. I get that people don’t want to put themselves in a position where they would somehow inciminate themselves, but CPS are not the police. And according to my wife, you’re much better off explaining your side of the story to a CPS worker (who has the training and education to process what you are saying/doing) vs a police officer who not only doesn’t have the same training but has far more latitude regarding actions they can take.

I am never going to tell someone not to exercise their rights. By all means , refuse to let CPS in , refuse to talk to them. You have an absolute right to do those things. Just like I have an absolute right to fight a parking ticket.

But I almost never fight a parking ticket, unless it’s the sort of ticket I can fight by mail. Because sometimes the cost of fighting the ticket is more than the cost of paying the ticket ( Ticket -$50 1 Days- pay more than $50). And lots of time the costs of not talking to CPS are greater than the costs of talking to them. At the very least, they’ll come knocking on your door a few more times. At worst, there will be enough evidence to get a court order removing your kids for at least a few days . Either of which might have been avoided by a simple conversation (Oh, Jimmy transferred to school B last year) but for your fear of an evil CPS worker who wants to remove your children for no reason at all. A species that I’m sure does exist somewhere- but I’ve never seen one. Have I seen CPS workers who are a little too frightened of headlines and lean toward “When in doubt, pull’em out”? Of course. But you’ll notice the saying is “when in doubt” . It’s not “make things up and put as many kids in foster care as possible”. Foster care costs money , you know.

If on the other hand you’re pretty sure that talking to them won’t make a difference - you’re the only adult in your apartment with three kids, and the pot smoke is so thick you can’t see across the room - then sure , don’t open the door. But don’t imagine that it’s going to help you keep your kids - because they’ll be able to smell it from outside the door.