Please answer my question, which is “what court in the UK is higher than the Supreme Court?”.
I’m not interested in your semantic games or demands for cites. Please either answer that question or accept that it’s the highest court.
It is not the highest court for Scottish criminal appeals.
Now for the cite for my words that you have conveniently misremembered.
I have found the original words I use and I cite them to show that I have been consistent throughout:
Certainly the English have cognitive ability to separate the various nationalities, but often refer to British things when meaning English ones.
One example above- the BBC History of Britain
“British juries have twelve people”
It is easy to exchange the British pound Sterling abroad
[COLOR=“Red”]The Highest Criminal Court in Britain used to be the House of Lords and is now the Supreme Court.
In Britain we have an established church
English is the only National language on Britain
I hope all British people will be supporting our team in the 2018 world cup
English philosopher David Hume…
In Britain for decades you have had the right to a solicitor[/COLOR]
Post 812 in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=742268&page=21
So to reinforce my original statement was that English peel often ignored the Scottish dimension and assumed that the case in England was also the case for Scotland.
Hence English people often believe falsely that:
The Highest Criminal Court in Britain used to be the House of Lords and is now the Supreme Court.
Whereas this is untrue for Scottish criminal cases.
As you can see from the above, I never did claim that there was a higher court than the SC in the UK.
What I did correctly claim was that in Scottish Criminal trials the SC is not higher than the appeal court in the HCJ.
Which has nothing to do with the original claim you made, that the Supreme Court is not the highest court in the UK.
I genuinely have no idea what you think you’re arguing about with constant references to Scottish law and Scottish courts. You’ve done nothing to show that the statement the Supreme Court is the highest criminal court in the UK is false, in fact all of your cites back up that claim.
Now, either admit you were wrong or name the UK court which is higher than the Supreme Court.
I never claimed that the Supreme Court was not the highest court in the UK for Civil matters. It is.
If you believe I claimed that, provide a cite.
The SC is not the Highest Court in the UK for Scottish Criminal Justice. That is the Appeal court of the HCJ.
votes NO
Can we just all agree that the SC isn’t the highest court for Scottish Criminal Justice and stop this neverending argument over something that really doesn’t matter very much unless you’re a Scottish Barrister or somebody who’s been convicted of a crime in Scotland?
Three pages of arguing about what you’re arguing about. Impressive.
Sorry, but Steophan is refusing to make his point clearly as he knows he has argued himself into a corner because he misremembered my original post and has constructed the most enormous Straw Man Argument. He is impossible to tie down and has engaged in this type of sophistry on several occasions when he realises he has misunderstood the original point in his haste to win rather than make an argument.
The really humorous thing is that the argument sprang from a dig that I was having about English people assuming that what goes for England also goes for Scotland, dismissing Scotland’s differences.
The House of Lords/Supreme Court example was an elephant trap that I set carefully, wording it about criminal justice where the SC has no part in Scottish Criminal Trials with a separate route of appeals which does not lead to the Supreme Court.
Steophan has insisted on falling for this consistently over two different threads.
It merely illuminates my original point about the English false belief that England = Britain.
Yes you are completely blameless for thiis shitshow.
This is the third time that Steophan has used this technique of misquoting then refusing to back up his arguments. Previously I have lost my temper and been rude. This time I have kept an even temper and merely persistently politely rebutted his claims and demanded cites for his false claims.
You claimed, falsely, that the Supreme Court is not the highest criminal court in the UK. You have repeatedly failed to provide cites that there is a higher court, despite my repeated requests, instead prattling on about irrelevant issues in one tiny region of the UK.
Everybody knows Scottish law is different. That doesn’t mean, despite your repeated assertions, that is a higher law that British law.
So, show a higher court than the Supreme Court or retract your claim that the Supreme Court is not the highest criminal court in the UK.
Again, you confuse England with the UK, ignoring Wales and NI. Ironically, exactly what you accuse your opponents of doing.
No-one assumes that what happens in Scotland is the same as what happens in England. What actually happens is that no-one in England gives the slightest little shit about the tiny differences between the countries, that you somehow want to magnify into massive cultural separation. England and Scotland are vastly closer to each other than they are to any countries outside the UK, despite your demonstrably false claims otherwise.
Oh, and once again all of your own cites show that I’m correct, that there is a route of appeal from Scottish courts to the SC but not vice versa. I’ve repeatedly asked you to cite that that’s not true, and you’ve failed to.
I will keep on playing a straight bat.
The Supreme Court is not higher than the Scottish appeal court in the Criminal Justice System. It cannot overturn Scottish trial decisions or change Scottish precedent law. There is no general appeal against conviction to the SC from the Scottish criminal justice system.
The SC IS the highest court in the UK for civil and administrative matters and in England for the Criminal law. In Scotland that highest criminal court is the appeal court of the HCJ.
The pinnacle of the Scottish criminal courts is different from the pinnacle of the English criminal courts.
Save for devolution and administrative issues, there is NO appeal from the Scottish Criminal Law system to the SC. The SC website confirms that with a clear statement that it is NOT the court of appeal for Scottish criminal law:
"Q. What is the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court over criminal matters in Scotland?
[COLOR=“Red”]
A. The main role of the UK Supreme Court is to hear appeals from courts in the United Kingdom’s three legal systems: England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
The Supreme Court acts as the highest court for civil appeals from the Court of Session in Scotland. The highest court for criminal appeals however remains as the Court of Appeal in Scotland.
The Supreme Court hears some criminal appeals, from other jurisdictions in the UK but not from Scotland.
However, the Supreme Court also determines “devolution issues” (as defined by the Scotland Act 1998). These are legal proceedings about the powers of the three devolved administrations. Devolution issues were previously heard by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and most are about compliance with rights under the European Convention on Human Rights, brought into national law by the Scotland Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998. It was in this capacity that the Supreme Court considered the Cadder case.[/COLOR]
English law is close to Australian, New Zealand and Canadian law and slightly less close to the laws of the USA. English law is as different from Scottish law in criminal matters as it is from Continental Law.
English law is based on common law and statute. Scottish law is a hybrid in many ways between common law and continental law.
Try to educate yourself rather than just trying to win arguments.