Show a higher court than the Supreme Court or retract your statement that it’s not the highest court in the UK.
Nothing else is relevant, interesting, or disputed.
Or is there something about the question that you don’t understand?
I never said that there was a higher court than the SC.
If you contend that I did, simply cite it.
So, then, why did you say I was wrong to say the SC is the highest criminal court in the UK? You’ve just admitted that there is no higher court…
Here’s the quote, by the way. You content that it is wrong to say the Supreme Court is the highest criminal court in Britain. You are wrong. It is, in fact, the highest criminal court in Britain, all your cites agree with that fact, and you have now admitted there is no higher court.
The separate nature of Scottish justice has nothing to do with it.
Arrange these symbols and names of courts for a fun game!
<
>
>=
<=
===
||
≈
≠
HCJ
SC
ECHR
Fun for all the family, for ever and ever and ever.
Try using English normally. The SC is not senior to the Scottish Court of Appeal as the Scottish Criminal Justice system does not have a higher level of appeal. For the Court of Session which is the highest Civil court in Scotland does have appeals to the Supreme Court.
I administrative and devolution matters, separate from Scottish Civil and Criminal law, the Supreme court is the successor to the Privy Council in deciding the law to do with devolved and retained powers.
In the criminal justice system in Scotland there is no appeal above the Court of Appeal.
In criminal justice terms the SC and the Appeal Court are equals, both being the senior court of appeal, one for Scotland and one for England.
In the civil stem the SC is the highest criminal courts in their respective jurisdictions.senior court in both jurisdictions.
In devolution and administrative law, the SC is senior in both jurisdictions.
I never said that there was a higher criminal court than the SC. What I do say is that in criminal law the Appeal Court in Scotland and the Supreme Court in England are the senior court in their respective jurisdictions.
It is to laugh.
HCJ<=SC<ECHR
Gosh, that was easy!
The highest CRIMINAL court in England is the SC
The highest CRIMINAL court in Scotland is the Appeal Court.
The SC is not an appeal court for Scottish Criminal Legal cases.
Their website confirms that.
I have never said that there is a higher court than the SC, merely that the SC has no standing in the Scottish criminal justice system.
Wrong.
For criminal law HCJ = SC in their respective jurisdictions. Neither is senior.
In civil law the SC is senior to the Scottish Court of Session.
Again with the confusing of England and the UK. For someone so focussed on a region, your disdain for Wales and NI is pathetic.
Whether the SC has standing in Scotland has nothing to do with the actual question, which is whether the SC is the highest criminal court in the UK.
It is. Simple,
That doesn’t actually show I’m wrong. To show I was wrong, you’d have to show that the HCJ can be senior to the SC in some circumstances, which I have repeatedly asked you to do.
Your own cites show the situations when the SC is superior to the HCJ, so I don’t need to provide them. The short version is that it, not the HCJ, decides whether Scottish laws are, in fact, legal.
I will try to assist you with your education.
A criminal case is a court hearing to allow the prosecution to prove whether or not a person is culpable for breach of the law. It also sets any penalty
This is initially decided by a lower court, but judgement and penalty are appealable appealable as a criminal case through higher courts.
This process reaches an end at the Appeal Court of the HCJ on Scotland and at the SC in England.
If either of the courts rejects the appeal, there is no further appeal.
In both jurisdictions it is possible to seek redress outwith the criminal law system by alleging that the law itself contradicted either devolution laws or obligations under the ECHR. Such cases are NOT criminal appeals, but appeals under civil law regarding the actions of the judicial authority.
Should either the SC or ECHR find for a plaintiff (Not defendant) that their rights have been abrogated, this has no effect on the criminal conviction as it is not part of the criminal law.
Er, yes, I know. The SC and the ECHR are the next step up - superior, if you will - when the criminal justice system has failed. Don’t pretend you can educate me about stuff that I already understand, and clearly understand better than you.
I’m really not sure how you can describe obliging the government to change the law and retry someone as having no effect on a criminal conviction, since it has in fact lead to convictions being overturned, but that semantic argument is irrelevant.
The HCJ is the highest criminal court in Scotland. The SC is the highest criminal court in the UK. Every single one of your cites makes that clear, and yet for some reason you still claim the SC is not the highest court in the UK.
Why?
No. I only said that the SC was not senior to the Scottish Appeal court in CRIMINAL cases.
The SC only decides on a very limited remit on Scottish Laws-whether they comply with devolved matters or the ECHR.
To give you some examples:
Criminal Justice is a devolved responsibility. If the Scottish Parliament decided to decriminalise drugs the SC would have no standing in the matter.
Foreign policy is not a devolved issue. If Scotland tried to enter into formal treaties with other powers, the SC would have standing.
If Scotland made it a criminal offence to open shops at all on Sunday (a devolved responsibility) and a person was convicted and fined, their appeal in the criminal system would end at the Court of Appeal in Scotland; there would be no further criminal appeal. There might be a possibility that they could appeal further claiming rights under the ECHR, but not for any other fault or error in their case.
If Scotland made it a criminal offence to vote ever again if imprisoned for more than ten years, the SC would have standing because of the ECHR.
If the Scottish Courts transgressed rules at several levels of trial and appeal making errors in process that made the conviction probably unsafe but not so gross as to contravene the ECHR, yet the Court of Appeal in Scotland did not for some reason correct these, the case could still not be heard at the SC on appeal as criminal justice is a devolved responsibility and no devolution or treaty obligations are involved.
“Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do…”
In Scottish criminal matters the SC is NOT the final authority.
I quote once again the Supreme Court website:
FURTHER the UK Supreme Court site cited says clearly:
"Q. What is the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court over criminal matters in Scotland?
A. The main role of the UK Supreme Court is to hear appeals from courts in the United Kingdom’s three legal systems: England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
The Supreme Court acts as the highest court for civil appeals from the Court of Session in Scotland. The highest court for criminal appeals however remains as the Court of Appeal in Scotland.
The Supreme Court hears some criminal appeals, from other jurisdictions in the UK but not from Scotland.
However, the Supreme Court also determines “devolution issues” (as defined by the Scotland Act 1998). These are legal proceedings about the powers of the three devolved administrations. Devolution issues were previously heard by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and most are about compliance with rights under the European Convention on Human Rights, brought into national law by the Scotland Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998. It was in this capacity that the Supreme Court considered the Cadder case.
Is drug policy devolved?
What does any of that have to do with the question of whether the SC is the Uk’s highest criminal court? I’ve repeatedly asked you to show which court you believe to be higher, and you’ve refused, yet you still maintain that it is not. You also refuse to explain why.
How about you stop blathering on about regional courts and talk about national ones? The Supreme Court is the highest court in the UK, for all matters. If you disagree, show a higher court. It’s that simple. Simply name the higher court.
Until you explain why the Supreme Court Website specifically denies that it hears Scottish criminal appeals:
The Supreme Court hears some criminal appeals, from other jurisdictions in the UK but not from Scotland.
But goes on to say that it does determine devolution and treaty issues:
However, the Supreme Court also determines “devolution issues” (as defined by the Scotland Act 1998). These are legal proceedings about the powers of the three devolved administrations. Devolution issues were previously heard by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and most are about compliance with rights under the European Convention on Human Rights, brought into national law by the Scotland Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998.
I will assume that you will continue in your unsupported ignorance.
Contradicting the definition of the SC given on their own website might be seen as foolhardy.
Even the SC does not believe that it has the powers that you suggest.
Because of this I shall simply respond to any future post by a request to explain why your contention is so much at variance with the Supreme Court’s own description of its rights and duties.