As I have mentioned in a couple of other threads, I write mysteries (mostly short stories). My regular editor wants a “locked-room mystery” for an anthology, and I have come up with an idea of killing off a character with a crossbow bolt made of ice and since this seems to be the week for crossbow questions, I thought I would ask the “Teeming Millions”.
Is it possible?
With no feathers, at what distance would it be accurate?
Hi Opal!
Can you apply feathers to ice? If yes, how and what would be the the accurate distance?
If imbedded in a chest or throat roughly how long would it take to melt?
(remember this is just for a story so don’t go testing this on any person or animal)
The ice would have to be flawless and VERY hard (cold). I’ve broken rated cedar arrows shot from a 45 lb stick bow (for perspective, this is the legel MINIMUM for hunting in most states. I usually shoot a 60 lb bow, and 150lbs is about average in crossbows). So it would have to be shot out of a very slow bow. You can get low powered crossbows, but the accuracy would be terrible at medium to long distances, they ‘rainbow’ or have a very high arc. The feather part would be easy enough, but wouldn’t that give away the fact it was an arrow/bolt? Without fletching it would not work unless you were at point blank range. At that range an ice knife would be more effective AND accurate.
What warmgun said–I’ve had wooden arrows explode on firing from a 70-pound recurve (no fun at all). I can’t imagine an ice bolt surviving when fired from a crossbow.
Maybe you should consider an ice dart from a blowgun, with some nasty little poison on it (or frozen into it)? Such a dart should fire very well (good lubrication and airseal), and the slower acceleration would help hold it together. It still wouldn’t be very accurate at any real range–but you could fire it through a very small hole…
I have a Barnet crossbow. It warns you not to use wooden bolts because they may fracture from the stress of launching. A bolt made of ice would be more likely to break. If you use this in a story, make sure you use a low power crossbow.
To attach the feathers, cut grooves in the ice, add the feathers and some water, then freeze them in place.
Put an ice cube on the ground or floor and measure how long it take to melt. For your story, you will want all of the bolt to melt, not just the portion stuck in the victim.
Spearguns will throw an unfletched projectile a pretty fair distance with good accuracy, whether in air or in water. I can’t see why a good crossbow would be any different.
If you insist on a stabilized bolt, mold it with fins. There’s no reason that your projectile has to use feathers, when ice fins will work just as well at short range and melt along with the rest.
If you use dry ice instead of water ice, you’ll have a harder and better-formed projectile that won’t even leave the telltale wet spot evidence that water ice will.
I am available for weddings, bar mitzvahs, and relatives who overstay their welcome.
You do know that a similar Mcguffin has been used before? In Bester’s The Demolished Man, the murderer used either ice, or just water wrapped in plastic.
I agree with the Cap’t except the unfletched part. I don’t know the physics of why spearguns and bows are different but they are. Wieght of arrow/bolt? I’ve shot both and have experimented with fletchment placing for optimum accuacy, including no fletching. For bows, cross or not, accuracy is a no go without it.
Molded fins are certainly better than nothing, but they’d be very difficult to do properly.
Finagle, not only are there no new plots, new plot devices are gettting pretty thin on the ground. Let’s not forget the “puddle under the noose” scenario. If we disallow reuse of tricks like this, we’re badly handicapping authors. Just let TV time try to come up with a new twist or two (or reassemble old ones into a new and pleasing whole).
<nitpick>
It’s not a McGuffin if we know what it is.
</nitpick>
why does it have to be a long arrow? Can’t you use an ice bullet? Not necesarily fired from a fire arm, but a projectile in the shape of a ball or bullet. That should work.
Man, that was a great book - why the heck doesn’t Bester get more credit for his work - between Demolished Man and The Stars My Destination (Tyger, Tyger in the UK), he did some great stuff…
As for the crossbow/ice idea, I agree with Balance - if TV Time can write a compelling enough plot with people we care about, we’ll be willing to suspend disbelief long enough to see where it goes, whether the fletchment is aerodynamically correct or not (granted, IANAArcher, so the specifics mean nothing to me anyway, and, as a musician, I remember not liking the Commitments because I didn’t think it reflected the reality of forming a band; but I knew I was an exception in the audience…).
The exception is when a strength of the book (this typically isn’t true with short stories) is the sense that you are getting accurate insider info - Clancy’s books depend on that big time, as does Caleb Carr, Name of the Rose, etc…in which case the Archery stuff (which is really interesting, it’s why I read this thread) needs to be spot on…so, TV Time, if you are using it just to move the plot, best of luck; if you are using Archery lore to anchor the story, it appears you have some physical/mechanical obstacles to overcome for it to read true…
I think the trouble folks are having with veining ice arrows is tradition. Feathers or veins are always ADDED to the arrows/bolts wheather wood, aluminum or fiberglass but since you have to make a mold for the ice arrow the best way would be to include veins slots into the mold.
Your biggest problem is how to get ice veins past the bow itself without shattering them into a thousand pieces. Thats why they are (traditionally) made of feathers - they collapse passing the bow the spring back into shape for a normal flight afterward.
Dry Ice–Can it be molded like ice? If so, wouldn’t this take special equipment that might be easily traced. Doesn’t it take more than normal cooling? I want this guy caught but not too easily.
Feathers might add to the story as a clue, so they are no problem.
Bullet or like projectile is a possibility, but I think Holmes or Father Brown may have come up against that. Possibility a bit too well known. And it should be a pretty good guarantee of death and does a catapult (slingshot) promise this? Maybe…
WAG. Given the brittle nature of any ice, I don’t think you would be able to penetrate a clothed torso for a “guarantee of death” shot. Better make him/her a marsksman and, literaly, go for the jugular.
I have used spearguns (underwater types) and have fired them above water. They are very stable and the gun delivers a termendous force to the spear. All times I fired it above water it was into something at max 25" away so I don’t know what would happen after 25".
Basically there are 2 types of spearguns - band and air pressure. The band gun basically uses the rubber band method and requires a grove in the spear - I could not see ice hold ing the force. The second type you push the shaft against the piston compressing the air. When the piston/shaft is fully compressed it is held in place and no force is on hte shaft. You could remove the metal shaft at this point (not recommend but possible) and sub an ice shaft (probabally you would want to freese the gun and add more air since the pressure will drop w/ temp). But I don’t know if it will survive the initial shock at firing.
I think the compressed air spear gun has some advantages over the crossbow as the force is more constant throughout the barrel (or shaft). The pressure range of a typical snub nose is 90lbs piston extended and 120lbs fully retracted - longer spear guns have much lower forces but fire over a longer distance maybe 40 - 60 lbs. All lbs are the static pressure. A crossbow may be (WAG here) 200 lbs forec fully cocked (-> to 0 lbs when relaxed (| . The compressed air spear gun delivers almost a constant and pressure while the crossbow (and the band gun) delivers peak pressure right at the start and goes to 0.
k2dave’s post gave me in idea. Instead of using existing launchers, why not have the guy build his own? The greatest chance of exploding the arrow/bolt is at the moment of acceleration. You could have it propelled by air through a tube for stabilization for the initial blast. Then you have the plausibility for suspention of dis-belief.
And, yes, I realise this is starting to sound like a gun but you could base it on the spear-gun.
Drop ice cube on floor. Ice cube shatters. Force of launch from bow is higher than force of impact on floor. Ice bolt would shatter on release. Bad idea.
Balance, 2-shay!
I, of course, meant compressed air power. But then I don’t know how much of a blow-hard you are…<smirking back>…< then running like hell for cover…>
Peace, brother
reinforce the ice crossbow bolt by embedding a few thin strands of soft string or cord in it; sure, it leaves more evidence, but an entry hole with a few strands of damp string hanging out could potentially be just as perplexing to the unsuspecting reader.
One other thought; what about if it was made of frozen blood? would this be stronger than water ice? (you could even use the victim’s own blood, stolen from the donor centre in a mysterious break-in the week before).
