Cunt!

The BBQ Pit
121

I suspect that nobody s advocating for a solution a la Orson Welles’ 1984 (if the word doesn’t exist then the idea doesn’t exist). We need all words. Actually I think we are still pretty much short on words, sometimes I have to resort to coming up with my own (un-nice, splunk). What we are explaining is that “cunt” is considered an insult by most people (for reasons that are unknown to me) even if SOME people think of it as a harmless expletive.

I don’t believe in PC-solutions, or “cleaning” the language. I am all for calling things like they are, and “cunt” in my book is not something I want to be called. YMMV.

122

That was in response to danceswithcats’ post.

123

I myself am all for keeping insulting words in the language, I just don’t like to see them tossed about casually. I wouldn’t say “You should never call someone a cunt” only “You should never call someone a cunt – unless you intend to be using one of the harshest, most vulgar, and most sexist insults in the English language”. If that’s the meaning someone is going for then “cunt” is the perfect word. Of course, offending people (particularly women) naturally goes along with that meaning, so people who use the word should expect to offend. If that isn’t their intent then they should use another word.

124

I think you mean George Orwell…

:smiley:

125

:smack:

That’s exactly what my mom said about saying “bad words”. I am getting stupider.

126

:smack:

That’s exactly what my mom said about saying “bad words”. Now I am getting stupider. I must stop posting in this thread. :wink:

127

I’m just going to ignore most of the trainwreck here and state why I believe that cunt is an offensive word. To me, yes, it is offensive - makes bile rise in my mouth. I have been called a cunt ONCE in my life, by a former friend. That word is the reason that he is a former friend. This may have been overreacting, but I give and demand a certain level of respect to and from those I associate with.

To me, being called a cunt reduces me to a hole. A hole in the wall, a hole in a body, a rubber glove with vaseline on it. A nameless, faceless object to fuck. Dick/prick no longer seem to carry the same connotation, I believe because #1. Dick has come to mean the same thing as asshole - a tasteless, insensitive person. Language evolves.

Why hasn’t cunt? Well, it is used to refer to women. Historically, of the genders, women are the oppressed ones in almost every civilization and society I have read about - there are exceptions, of course. It is offensive, for this reason, in context for the same reason the n-word (for you, EasyPhil), kike, faggot, dyke are offensive. Of homo and heterosexuals, homosexuals have been oppressed. Of Jews and Gentiles, Jews are the oppressed group. Of Negroes and Caucasians, the Negroes have been the oppressed group here in the Americas (I truly do not know if the same situation exists in Eurasia - I know it does in South Africa at least).

For me, a comparable insult to a man would be (in his hearing) stating “Pay no attention to what he has to say - he’s nothing but a fuckstick.” Would I say that about someone? No. But I think that carries the same intention as the word ‘cunt’ does much better than the word ‘prick’ would.

I think eventually, all of these words will lose their sting with more and more equality coming to those formerly and still oppressed groups - those who hear the words will have fewer memories of such oppression, and for that reason, they will lose their power.

IMHO. :slight_smile:

128

Any Ohioans here? Do you remember the shitstorm that came down on Dagmar Celeste’s head in 1990 when she was making a speech and read a passage from Andrea Dworkin that used the phrase “our cunts” …?

Dagmar Celeste was the First Lady of Ohio at that time. The governor’s wife. She is one outspoken feminist. Recently she was in the news again: excommunicated from the Catholic Church for organizing the ordination of a bunch of women as Catholic priests (including herself).

She was making a speech at some function when she began quoting Dworkin, a rhetorical passage that listed various body parts. It was her saying “our cunts” in public—in her capacity as First Lady of Ohio—that shocked and outraged just about everybody. It was funny seeing the story reported in the Plain Dealer, how the reporter tried to dance around the phrase and suggest what she said without actually quoting it. I haven’t been able to identify the occasion when Dagmar said that, or where in Dworkin’s writings it came from. Anyone remember this notorious incident?

Oh, and my point was: As in the Vagina Monologues, the feminists can appopriate this word for themselves as a word of power. Instead of letting themselves be offended by it, and thereby controlled by others’ use of it, they seized it for themselves and took control of it. How about that?

129

Well… it makes for good theatre, but if the daughter, son, co-worker or SO of one of these women called them a “cunt” in anger during some dispute I have my doubts about how strongly “appropriated” this word would really be. In the end we can play all the “sticks an stones” contextual games we want, but intent still rules the roost.

130

To the best of my knowledge, (sorry no cite just, personal experience) round my way (Ireland), the term isn’t really that offensive, Though i could be wrong. Friends call each other a “CT" jovially etc. Usually something like "you stupid ct” etc.
anyway that’s my two cent,
Mogiaw

131

So what is the worst pejorative insult an Irish woman can receive?

132

“CUNT
KUNA = meant both Mother Earth in BASQUE old Indo European language and YONI
CUNTRY meaning Earth Goddess = country
As late as 1700 English peasantry still used this word CUNT with respect. Often it would be associated with a river or a township by a river mouth (river CUNNIT, now the river Kennet; township in Roman times called CUNETIO”-http://www.geocities.com/unity1_nz/words

Truth is words only have as much power over you as you allow them to, as do people. I use this word, but I use it in an effort to nullify its current meaning, because once upon a time it stood for something powerful.

133

I don’t really know.

IMHO c**t has been desexualised here. Although it still has the other meaning, it is usually synonymous with “asshole” (as in the pejorative not the anatomical, begob, this is getting complicated)

134

[Christiebelle said

I haven’t read the whole thread, but was this said previously? Where did you get your information about this from?

135

Christiebelle, that etymology is about as accurate as the one that claims the term “bull-dyke” is derived from the name of Boudicca. Poor linguistic research is not a worthy tool for advancing the cause.

136

well, actually, i like the word cunt. i like to be called cunt. it makes my panties wet. anyone wanting to use the ‘c’ word, feel free to email me :slight_smile: . i’ll tell you exactly what i think of it :slight_smile: .

137

http://www.geocities.com/unity1_nz/words

138

I am not trying to advance any cause, I suggest you read “Cunt” by Inga Muscio, here are some descriptions from amazon.com:

"Book Description
An ancient title of respect for women, the word “cunt” long ago veered off this noble path. Inga Muscio traces the road from honor to expletive, giving women the motivation and tools to claim “cunt” as a positive and powerful force in their lives. In this fully revised edition, she explores, with candidness and humor, such traditional feminist issues as birth control, sexuality, jealousy between women, and prostitution with a fresh attitude for a new generation of women. Sending out a call for every woman to be the Cuntlovin’ Ruler of Her Sexual Universe, Muscio stands convention on its head by embracing all things cunt-related. This edition is fully revised with updated resources, a new foreword from sexual pioneer Betty Dodson, and a new afterword by the author. “Bright, sharp, empowering, long-lasting, useful, sexy…”—San Francisco Chronicle “… Cunt provides fertile ground for psychological growth.”—San Francisco Bay Guardian “Cunt does for feminism what smoothies did for high-fiber diets—it reinvents the oft-indigestible into something sweet and delicious.”—Bust Magazine --This text refers to the Paperback edition.
Ingram
This provocative analysis of women’s relationships with their bodies, including sexuality, rape, and prostitution, reclaims the word “cunt” as a positive force in the movement to unite and empower women. " - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580050158/104-2701675-7341560?vi=glance

End thought, words or people have just as much power over you as you allow them to have. I am proud to be a woman, and have always been.

139

Here’s additional info. from “Take Our Word For It” a weekly word-origin webzine. I make no etymological claims for it’ s veracity.

140

When I want fantasy, I read fantasy novels. When I want to study linguistics (and I suspect I’ve already studied the subject a great deal more than you, or Inga Muscio, have), I read real scholarly works on the subject – and Cunt is not one.

I do not believe that “cunt” was “an ancient title of respect for women”, nor do I believe that it is related to the word “country”, and I do not believe these things because they are utterly fanciful. “Cunt” has meant “female genitalia” since Chaucer’s time at least, and there is no real evidence that it has ever meant anything else. It certainly has nothing to do with the word “country”.

If Muscio, or anyone else, wants to reclaim the word “cunt” then they’re welcome to give it their best shot. It is true enough that the word was not always vulgar or obscene. It was once considered pretty harmless, and there’s no reason why it should not one day return to being a perfectly acceptable synonym for “vulva”. But there is no excuse for bad scholarship or promoting fantasy as fact.