Cut the Afro, or be expelled...

Great Debates
1

The Philadelphia Archdiocese is be taken to court because several black students at Saint Rose School refuse to have their hair cut, and therefor face expulsion from the Catholic School.

I’m hoping the courts refuse to hear the case. To the best of my knowledge, a Catholic School, being a private and religious institution, can set rules regarding hair length and other rules regarding appearance. Certainly, these rules include all students. I spent twelve years of my life with “hair above the collar”, and even if it wasn’t near the collar, if a Nun, Priest or Brother didn’t like the way it looked, it was pulled nice and tight until you agreed to cut it or comb it. And if you didn’t? You were sent home and faced expulsion until you complied with their rules. Seems fair to me.

Now some black students are crying over the fact that they must cut their hair to stay in St. Rose School. The media likes to report, “Black students sue to keep their Afros”.

Am I nuts to think this should be tossed out? Or will the Church have to prove it has been applying these kind of rules, any numerous others, for many generations amongst many people? (The wuld have no problem getting testimonials!)

I’m not a defender of the Church by any means, but if they wanted all students to come in wearing pink bows in thier hair, then the students must comply or leave.

Are these students and their parents nuts?

2

Do you have a link to the story?

It seems an absurd policy, but a private school should have the right to enact any absurd policies they wish, so long as the welfare of the students is not endangered. It seems to me that the proper response for parents who disagree with the policy is to take their children, and their money, elsewhere.

3

To the best of my knowledge, a Catholic School, being a private and religious institution, can set rules regarding hair length and other rules regarding appearance.

Yep, that’s about the size of it. AFAIK, private schools can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don’t get abusive.

The parents should have thought of that before sending their child to a private school, especially a religious one.

4

I’ll try to get a link to a reference. Right now, it’s an exclusive story on a local news broadcast, thus making a link/reference difficult until they run the story tonight.

The people I’ve heard in sound bytes are clueless, as many seem to support the litigious parents.

There is a racial spin being applied to this afro-cutting issue. Our local news loves racism/cries of racism - Gets ratings.

5

How big are these afros? Are they asking the students to perm their hair or just cut it shorter? Are other students with curly hair (besides the black ones) being asked to trim back. Is there some standard that these black students are not adhering to?

Is this school getting federal funding in any way?

There are a lot of questions that need answering before I label the parents litigious or the school racist.

6

As long as they are insisting Caucasian males restrict their hair length to the same standards, no problem.

7

I spent 12 years in Catholic School. They can insist you do anything they say (as long as they are not endangering the children) and get away with it. It’s their school - their rules. Hey, my alma mater is an all girls school - they even can get away with sexism :smiley:

My Old High School Rules (the ones I can remember, anyway) –

  • No makeup
  • No jewelry except for your required cross - the only exception being that, if your ears were pierced you were allowed to wear pearl earrings - only pearl earrings
  • Random inspections for skirt length/slacks fit (we had a choice)
  • No rolled up sleeves or untucked shirts (or face a weeks detention) even though we were required to wear long sleeves all year long and the school had no air conditioning
  • No hairspray, no teased hair (for a while we were required to wear our hair short or up in a bun/ponytail - but that sort of fell by the wayside,
  • Only black penny loafers (no other shoe was acceptable)
  • These rules stood whether in the school or out. If we got caught at the mall by one of the nuns with our shirt untucked or smoking or something, they’d give out detention slips right on the spot.

Remember this was the mid eighties - no makeup, no hairspray, no jewelry - this was a HUGE deal - and they enforced it.

These people have no right bringing this suit. They are paying to go to this school - if they don’t like the regs, they can send their money elsewhere. If they don’t like following rules and want to dress and act as they please - go to public school. It’s as simple as that. I understand the kids feeling this way - I was there once. It’s the parents I don’t understand. Why can’t they just explain to their children why the regulations are in place, explain the purpose of being and dressing uniform - the kids still won’t like it, but at least they’ll understand it - or aren’t the parents mature enough to understand it, either? Besides all that, I doubt getting a haircut will scar any of them for life.

Biggirl - Catholic Schools do not receive any funding other than tuition and donations from parishners of the Church. Catholic Schools are not eligible for government (federal, state, or local) funding because of the separation of church and state, IIRC. Private schools, not connected to any religion, may be another matter entirely.

8

I’m not taking sides here, I just said I needed more information. If the school has a regulation that everyone has to follow, then everyone has to follow it. If the school is making special regulations for afros, then the students have a point.

If (and I repeat, IF) the school is singling out the black students on the basis of their hairstyle, then I think they have a reason for filing a civil rights suit.

If (and again I repeat IF) the students want special hair treatment because they are black, well then, too bad for them.

9

Even public schools can do this.

10

Unless of course they fail to insist that Caucasian FEMALES also restrict their hair length to the same standards.

Except, of course, that, as previously mentioned a couple of times, it is a private school and therefore they can deploy any damn rules they want to.

Unless of course public taxpayers’ money supports these private schools, such as through vouchers or something of that sort. Which has been proposed by some critics of the public school system. And opposed by critics of the private schools.

To which parents send their kids anyway if they can afford it in areas where the quality of the public schools is low. Thereby creating a bit of a “release valve” that reduces what might otherwise be an emphatic public outcry for better public schools.

11

Even public schools can do this.

I thought there were laws regarding when public schools may expel students.

12

Okay, first let’s set aside any discussion about enforcing different rules for the different SEXES. It is okay to do so (legally). You can require men to cut their hair, but not women. This has been exhausted in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court acknowledges that it is okay to have rules for men and different rules for women. Just like it is okay to have different rest rooms.

Anybody who is vagueley familiar with Catholic schools knows that caucasian males must keep their hair short (and sometimes that is defined by the shirt collar), and sometimes it’s defined as just having raggy hair. And yes, “raggy” and “short” are both subjective at times, but it’s their school (the Catholic Church) and they make any rules they want. The also have rules that exclude women from taking on many roles men have. As far as I know, and I agree with the concept, they can do whatever the heck they want. You don’t like it? Leave.

If they dedided to isolated Italians and punish them for being Italian, I being an Italian wouldn’t sue, but I would hope other Itaians would find another place for an education.

But, that being said, the Catholic Church has been enforcing such simle discipline policies as hair length for many years/generations of whites, blacks and anyone else who went to Catholic school. They torture the students across the board. This has been demonstrated and they could line up Catholics by the millions who will testify to this. Ain’t no lack of evidence on this point!!!

Now that the Afro is coming back, it’s no surprise that someone with a 'fro in Catholic school would have to cut it. The Nuns mean business, and thank God they don’t discriminate: They torture everyone.

13

I do NOT think that Nuns should’ve had the right to punish someone OUTSIDE of school (like at the mall).
However, I agree with everyone else-if the rule is that guys are supposed to keep their hair a certain length, then what can they do? It’s a PRIVATE school and if you don’t like it, hey, there’s the door, pal.

14

I don’t want to hijack my own thread, but something Guinastasia mentioned reminded me of something:

Outside of school, but during the time we were students at West Catholic High School for Boys in Philadelphia, we could just be waiting for public transportation on the corner and we could fall prey to the dreaded Catholic Hit Squad.

Here is how it worked: You and about 10 others are waiting for a bus, and you’re on the corner, and coming down the street is the infamous silver four door sedan (which we called the God Squad), and you can make out two figures in the front seat, and they are wearing black. Yep - it’s the Christian Brothers from West Catholic, and they are on the prowl. You glance at your buddies and notice one isn’t wearing his tie AND he is smoking.

Th silver four door sedan pulls up, only looks are exchanged, your buddy is tossed into the back seat, and driven away…

…Ten minutes later, the car returns, your buddy is unceremoniously disposed of on the corner, usually tossed while the car barely stops. Your buddy is red faced (from slapping), his shirt tattered - he is totally disheveled.

No one says anything…the bus pulls up and off to school you go.

No one - I mean NO ONE, questioned this behavior. It was expected. Not tolerated - EXPECTED.

No one blinked. We didn’t even talk about it. It didn’t even register on the meter of discussion. It was normal.

And know what is stranger? I am glad for that experience. Although an atheist, I can appreciate that discipline from the Catholics that I abandoned. I was raised Catholic, but went through high school a devot atheist. You want a religious battle? Try being an open atheist in a Catholic High School.

15

Well if its expected whats wrong with it?

16

Answer: Nothing. My story was to demonstrate to Guinistasia that being disciplined outside of school wasn’t “wrong”. It was expected, especially by the parents.

We didn’t have “malls” in the city, so I gave her the best example I could.

17

Hmmm…well, all I can say is that I’m so glad MY catholic school wasn’t like that.

18

Since this is a private school i think they can ban afros. However, I would like to point out that the many of you said that because that how things have always been that makes the right and if you dont like it go to another school are using seriously flawed logic. Neither of those statements have any relevance to what is right or wrong. Likewise just because thats how it was when you were growing up doesnt mean thats how it should be now. Though i do wonder why they would care about afros … or hair in general as long as it isnt disruptive. Especially enough to go to court over it. The last two statements stand for each side. If i were the school i would allow the afros, but make them pick them out of course, in order to avoid the lawsuit. Im not saying they should back down from any/every complaint under threat of lawsuit, merely that they should pick their battles… and not just as to ones they can win… but ones that are worth fighting over in the first place.

It might also be noted that a well maintained afro is a work in disipline in itself.

19

Though i do wonder why they would care about afros … or hair in general as long as it isnt disruptive.

Why would they care? Because they’re run by anal retentive, Bible thumping freaks who care more about turning the students into religious zombies than actual education.

20

Leaving aside the issue of why some people appreciate growing up in a climate of fear (which I’ll start another thread on sometime), let me just say that there’s nothing wrong with mandatory haircuts. It may be a security issue (since it’s easy to hide items in big hair), it may be simply a part of conformity, but it’s legit. Peanuts compared to the mandatory volunteer service (!) I was subjected to, but again, 'nother thread.

Handing out a detention slip outside of school, however, is not just wrong, it’s absolutely reprehensible. I don’t care what silly excuses the school offered. Time away from school is supposed to be just that. Any facutly member who tries to extend the school’s jurisdiction to EVERYWHERE is totally out of line. Period. “Strictness” is not an excuse for gross abuses of power.

So, haircut okay, hair will grow back; free-fire detention slips not okay, destroyed faith in the system probably won’t.

(Hoo boy…don’t ever get me started on my Catholic School experience. The murderous impulses still have not completely faded away. ;))