I was reading some articles today about the habits of certain populations to cut in lines, basically the refusal of many people to queue up properly. Here are some of them:
I was wondering how people feel about people cutting in front of you in line. I’ve seen it here a couple of times in the US at large events, mostly theme parks, but not on the scale that I have heard in countries like China, India, and Italy. Can anyone comment from personal experience that many people simply refuse to line up in an orderly fashion in some countries? And I wonder what causes that situation. What are your thoughts?
That was one of the biggest cultural differences I noticed when I was in China last fall - nobody lines up at all and people are all about the pushing and shoving. At ticket booths for tourist attractions and train stations there are metal bars that force people to line up in front of the money taker/ticket seller, but apart from those I never saw anyone standing in a line.
Oh, except to see pickled Mao. Everyone stands in a line in Tiennanmen Square and nobody pushes or shoves.
There is a fairly large population in Minneapolis from the horn of Africa. Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea. I used to go to a large discount grocer in that neighborhood, but it finally drove me crazy.
When traveling, some tour guides would be amazed when we got off the bus and formed a line to buy snacks at the rest areas. They would tell us that only Aussies and Americans did that.
It’s unbelieveable that these people can be so rude and childish, and that it goes on all the time. I felt so sorry for the woman in the last link (she was the target of pushing, shoving, shouting while waiting in a bus ticket line). That makes me never ever want to go to India.
Yeah, I’m all for being tolerant of other cultures but it seems to me cutting in front of someone who was there first is the height of rudeness and I’d be inclined to return the favor. Then again I didn’t grow up in an area where line cutting is frequent so maybe people who live where that is common expect it and it doesn’t bother them in the same way.
When my sister lived in Israel, I visited several times. The pushing and shoving to get up to a ticket window was extremely annoying. I really had to breathe deep and remind myself we weren’t all playing by my rules.
The fun started when I realised I could push and shove too. It’s quite liberating, especially when you can shove little old ladies out of the way. Truly.
I literally have to stay away from people and places like that because I react vilolently to being pushed and even worse when my wife and daughter are invloved. I have been pushed in Italy enough times that I am a little concerned to go back there. Everyone seems to LOVE the Italians. I HATE the Italians for only this reason (my wife is 1/2 Italian-American and this comment is not from lack of cultural exposure.)
The first time I went to Venice, we were trying to rush to the train station and I was trying to buy water taxi tickets. I walked up to the the window to pay, got my money out and this little old Italian man just casually walked up and pushed me away and started buying his own tickets. My arm instinctively went out and I was dead set on killing him and throwing him in the Adriatic when my wife stopped me. SHE pushed him away and started screaming in Italian. The guy was about 65 years old, 5’1 and 100 pounds.
I try to respect their cultural differences but you they need to respect mine as well. I am as polite and civilized in public as can be but where I grew up, a deliberate push is a personally delivered invitation to a death match. It is an insanley insulting gesture for someone half my size to just casually take physical initiative against me or the ones I am with.
Wow! Its a good thing your wife was there. I probably would have done the same except I don’t know if my wife would have been able to stop me in time. I like to live by the “When in Rome” rule so I’d probably try and go along with the flow but if we’re going to be pushing and shoving then the other people doing it better be prepared to take it if they can dish it out.
Yeah, Israelis are awful at queues. A fellow American student there told me that the most important thing he learned in Israel was that he never needed to stand in line ever again. And it’s true, because if you do that sort of thing here in the US, 95% of the time people will be so shocked that they’d let you get away with it without a word.
And then I went to Britain. Talk about culture shock. One day, I had arrived several minutes early for a bus in London, so I took out my book and read and generally ignored my surroundings for a few moments. When the bus arrived, I was startled to realize that there were several people standing behind me in a tidy queue. I hadn’t even realized they were there. Even Americans don’t like lining up as much as the British.
Yeah, it’s definitely an American (and probably British) thing to feel outrage over this kind of behavior. Just yesterday I had a woman (clearly an immigrant) try to cut in front of me at the train station, but I was feeling ornery about it and fought back – subtly, mind you. By anticipating when the person ahead of me was about to move forward, I was able to gain a half step on my adversary, and then through the adroit placement of my right elbow, drive her back. Made it to the window before her, I’ll have you all know, and quite enjoyed my childish triumph.
When I was in Africa, the concept of “line” simply didn’t exist. When the bus arrived, there would be an absolute scrum – the devil take the hindmost. If I’m allowed to generalize, poor countries where resources are scarce tend to operate on this model.
On campus here (an American university), people line up, but outside of campus (say, at a cashier’s window at a government office) people just crowd around. If you try to stand in line, someone will just walk up to the counter, stand next to the person currently doing business with the cashier, and then give in their papers ahead of you. I used to find it annoying, but if you want to live in a foreign country, you have to let go of things like that and learn to accept the local customs. Still seems inefficient to me, though.
I have to say, I’ve been around Ethiopian-American people (mostly immigrants) all my life in numerous gatherings and just out-and-about and never noticed a significant difference in their lining up procedure compared to other Americans. And I hate line cutters, so I would hope I would’ve noticed a trend.
There are plenty things we do that other countries would find to be shocking and horrible ways to treat people. For example, I’ve been picked off the sides of dusty roads and given food and shelter by complete strangers in any number of countries. In many place guest and travellers simply must be taken care of, no matter how poor you are. But it’s pretty rare for an American to invite a stranger- even one in need- in to their homes.
I experienced the lack of lines in India. There are some situations where lines happen, but they are pretty specialized. Even things like traffic lanes are pretty rare. And nearly any line can be bypassed with a few bucks to the right person. Anyway, in situations like train stations, some shops, etc, mostly people stand around the front of a counter and try to grab the clerk’s attention when they see a free one.
It’s not so bad. Everyone mobs near the window, the clerk takes whoever is in front of him and everyone eventually gets what they want. It’s largely not huge men pushing you around- the most vicious line detroyers are tiny old ladies who shove a hand in edgewise between you and the counter and invite their entire extended family in. It’s not about physicallity, it’s about persistance.
You just have to be assertive, patient and forgiving. Honestly, any kind of travel in a developing country is going to call for these things and if a little disorder at the bus stand is going to bug you, you are going to have a very very long trip ahead of you. Thing are very, very different out there.
It’s hard to explain. Things are just more fluid. Almost anything (prices, waits, etc.) can change depending on how much of a fuss you want to kick up (or how much money you feel like coughing up). In a way it’s like how selective pricing on supermarket club cards work- those who are willing to go through the bother of picking out the discounted merchendise pay a lower price, while those who want to just shop and get out pay a higher one and the store get the maximum amount. It doesn’t really conform to our concept of fair, but different experiences is one of the reasons why we go to different places.
I have family in DF, so I’ve been there five (six?) times. But I take cabs (or subway! It’s 2 pesos!) when I am there. God forbid I ever get behind the wheel there. They crazy.
