Cutting off aid to Egypt is the law

[Zakalwe]

@John_Mace

I agree.

But I still think it was a coup.

Okay, so let’s just say it was coup (although at this point offering John McCain’s opinion on anything related to foreign policy gets close to offering Ronald McDonald as a nutritional expert - but let’s go with the coup thing). Let’s also assume that Morsi was acting extra-legally with the specific intent of continuing his and his party’s rule forever. What option other than coup did the Egyptians have?

[Trinopus]

I think it was a coup… But it’s the kind of coup that ought to have happened more often in history. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Khomeini, Hussein, Assad, etc.

The trouble is, there isn’t any formalized “check and balance” on it. Back in 1979, I heard a congressman say that the U.S. army ought to throw Jimmy Carter out if he were re-elected!

(I have been searching for a cite for this for decades now! I remember the name being “Briggs” and he being from Arizona. U.S. Congressman? State? I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure I heard it on a legitimate news broadcast. Any help would be very gratefully received!)

What is the “right answer” when someone is legitimately elected, and then uses authoritarian techniques to demolish the instruments of democracy? I agree with TriPolar to the degree that no legal means of opposition were going to succeed in removing Morsi: he had already corrupted the civil service and the courts to the degree that they could not act against him. It was either the military, or a series of protests of the same sort that drove Mubarak out…

…Or simply surrendering to Morsi and tyranny. No option was going to be pleasant, but the military coup was probably the least unpleasant.

[BrainGlutton]

@Terr

http://dailycaller.com

Not much point in reading further, is there?

[BigT]

I personally would not ever consider anything a coup unless someone in charge of the coup winds up in power. It’s not a coup if elections are set up and those elections can be reasonably considered to be democratic. That’s a democratic revolution.

[YogSothoth]

@Terr

Does that make him NOT duly elected?

At the time. And now the people regret it. Apparently, Egyptian recall elections work a little bit differently than they do in the states

@John_Mace

Have you considered that there would be future elections, and the people could vote him out? For example, if Obama’s approval rating slips below 50%, is the US DoD justified in booting him out of office?

@John_Mace

Do you think Yog has offered a reasoned way of determining if they are or not? All he or she has offered is that a president was elected and then became unpopular. If he or she would like to flesh out his his or her ideas, then that would be nice.

Obviously people didn’t want to wait that long. And going by precedent, under 50% is nothing in America. Maybe under 10%. Sure, ideally they’d wait until the next vote, but Egypt isn’t Iowa, they’re in a part of the world that military intervention is a bit more normal, so we can’t judge them by our standards. This was as clean a “coup” as it could be, with minimal deaths and the president detained with all his fingers attached. Plus, I’m against religious fanatics being in office, that’s unjustified anywhere, so I’m happy they got rid of him.

[NotfooledbyW]

@John_Mace

No, you may not.

Not until you, or someone else, articulates when Election Mulligans are OK and when they are not. As I said, I’m intrigued by the idea. I just want to understand when they are OK.

That was part of my question to you. If you wish to call what happened in Egypt an ‘election mulligan’ and wonder when it is ok, then the answer is that it’s not ok where elected government has not been established long enough to sustain itself and protect the losing side’s rights and protections under a constitution that is stronger than elected men or women. You know, such as it has been in the US for decades.

So are you comparing a year old elected government immediately following a major revolution to FDR’s time in office for instance?

[NotfooledbyW]

J.Mace must have searched this thread trying to catch me saying that there was no military coup in Egypt last summer. He found one where an Egyptian was cited by me saying it was not a coup in her opinion.

But J.Mace perhaps in error could not find my direct
Words on the matter. Scroll to the last sentence.

@NotfooledbyW

I have no problem with an Egyptian saying it was not a coup. After all Egypt belongs to Egyptians. It can be called a revolt if they wish. I expect that Egyptians, having seen one year of the Muslim Brotherhood showcasing their version of running or governing a democratically elected regime, tens of millions voted again against them with their feet.

Was this an early revolt to ‘save’ the young sapling of liberty for the Egyptian people? Who was it that said, " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. "
The Egyptians figured out that theirs needed refreshing quite early in the process.
I have read some interesting commentary in the European Press and one of them was about Mubarak’s former secrete police. They were a hundred thousand strong. They were mentioned with the need to take a look at how the alliances have been shifting since Mubarak was ousted. One writer observed that it looks like the former Mubarak Secret Service members seem to be allied and protecting the Secularists of seventeen million who took to the streets calling for Morsi to resign. So this go around there is an alliance against the theocratic Muslim Brotherhood made up of the secularists/ protestors/ rebels plus the perhaps 100,000 former Mubarak Secret Police and the Egyptian military.

Think about it. Secularists have the toughest and most weapon laden groups on their side now. There may not be a civil war … and perhaps that is why the Muslim Brotherhood may have calmed down and figured out just what they are up against… and are now saying stuff like this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57593288/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-vows-peaceful-defiance/
And the writing about the Secret Police comes from this excerpt and link:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/colinfreeman/100225749/revolution-in-egypt-are-cairos-secret-police-on-the-right-side-for-once/

I still like the odds for the secularists - the military - and the 100,000 strong former Mubarak tough guys - and many forward looking religious conservatives coming together to hold the Muslim Brotherhood’s itch for Iranian style Theocracy in check.

I’d call what happened to Morsi was a smack down or to paraphrase Jefferson… it was a good bit of ‘refreshing the tree of liberty’ when it had to.

Call it a coup D’état if you like. It doesn’t matter within a deeper perspective.

I am definitely not arguing that it was not a Coup D’état / so isn’t it surprising that J.Mace did not cite this?

[John_Mace]

@NFBW

I have never argued that it was not a coup, so you are in error again.

Emphasis added.

It’s no surprise at all to me that you argued it was a coup and also that it wasn’t a coup in the same thread.

But you claimed you never argued it wasn’t a coup. It matters not if you didn’t actually say it in your own words, beaause you did “argue” it. So, if you argued it was a coup 1,000,000 times and that it wasn’t a coup once, you were still wrong.

Never say never.

[NotfooledbyW]

@John_Mace

Emphasis added.

It’s no surprise at all to me that you argued it was a coup and also that it wasn’t a coup in the same thread.

But you claimed you never argued it wasn’t a coup. It matters not if you didn’t actually say it in your own words, beaause you did “argue” it. So, if you argued it was a coup 1,000,000 times and that it wasn’t a coup once, you were still wrong.

Never say never.

Are you arguing that what happened ‘was a coup’ in this comment:

@John_Mace

So, reading the news today it looks like there are Senators in both parties who are taking both sides on this. Very complicated. But, it also notes that Obama is the decider as to whether this is a coup or not, so it’s really up to him unless Congress writes a new law.

As violence escalates, there really are no good options for us here.

Or are you arguing that Obama gets to decide and that both sides are taking no coup
or yes coup positions.and that its complicated?