My 1990 Honda Accord is not a happy camper these days. Background - it has about 240,000 km on it. I haven’t owned it for very long, so I’m not sure about what kind of work and maintenance has been done on it.
It has a standard (manual) transmission. 75% of the time when I start from a stopped position, it makes a horrible high-pitched groaning/grinding kind of noise. It doesn’t make it in any gear except first (however, if I try to start it in second, it will make the same noise) - i.e. when I shift from first to second, second to third, etc the noise isn’t there.
At first I thought maybe it was my clutch. But then a friend suggested it was my CV joints. I don’t know much about cars (that may be quite obvious), and I don’t have the money right now to have it looked at by a mechanic.
Any Dopers have any ideas? It’s been making this noise for (I hate to admit it) about a month or so.
Does it sound like it’s coming from in front of you, or next to you?
A clutch problem typically occurs in all gears, since the clutch is doing the same thing regardless of the gears. A transmission/synchro problem can manifest in one gear only; is it more of a grind or a groan? A grind can be the synchros going, while a groan is less of a transmission-in-trouble-type sound.
To throw out something more boring, if it’s a groan; I’d suggest something structural - subframe bushings, shock mounts, etc, that creaks when the weight transfer of starting from a stop occurs. Those are wear items that go with age. Does it change in volume or tone with the car is warm vs. cold?
It kind of sounds like it’s coming from underneath me if that makes any sense. It’s a VERY loud noise actually … because it’s winter, of course my windows are usually closed, but the other day I was pulling out of a drive-thru at a fast food restaurant, and my window was still open, and I was shocked at how loud the noise was. Eeesh …
It happens whether the car is warmed up or not. The first noise I noticed was a kind of “cracking” sound … almost like the car’s frame was “flexing” when I would start from a stopped position. That cracking sound has mostly gone away.
This sounds like maybe a BIG problem, if it’s structural?
Wait a minute, Stainz, you had better clarify. Is this noise associated with the car just starting to move, or with accelerating the engine? I think Philster is assuming the latter, and others are assuming the former. In other words, what happens if:
a) you push in the clutch and rev the engine without moving?
b) slowly ease out the clutch without stepping on the accelerator?
From the description, I would guess a bearing in the transmission. It’s not impossible there’s a clutch problem, but the nature of the noise is not at all typical of that. And neither the sound nor the situation is consistent with a CV joint problem. I don’t see how a flywheel* alone would be the culprit, though it could be a factor if the clutch is involved.
I strongly suggest you get the transmission fluid checked and topped up as soon as possible – like yesterday. If it’s low on fluid, and that has resulted in a dry bearing, it might forestall an expensive transmission overhaul to do this. It’s not an expensive thing to do. It should be part of a standard oil, filter, & lube service, but not every shop is conscientious about doing it.
*The flywheel is a round metal plate bolted to the rear of the engine’s crankshaft. It rotates with the engine when the engine’s running. It provides mass to assist with engine smoothness, a place for the gear teeth the starter uses to crank the engine, and one of the surfaces the clutch uses.
Zut - an example of when the noise happens is when I’m stopped at a red light. When I start to move, accelerating slowly while letting the clutch out, the noise starts … once I’ve completed the shift the noise stops. It’s like once first gear is fully engaged, the noise ends. I’ve tried shifting really slowly, shifting quickly (basically popping the clutch), but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I can’t figure out why it happens MOST of the time, but not ALL of the time.
To answer your questions:
If I push in the clutch and rev the engine without moving, there is no noise.
If I slowly ease the clutch out without stepping on the accelerator, while in neutral, there is no noise.
I had the oil changed and all of the fluids checked just a couple of weeks ago. It’s a reputable place and they signed off on it, so hopefully they actually checked what they said they would!
CV joints are definitly out, they usually only make noise when you turn and often only one direction. this is because of the way they work. allowing you to supply power to the wheel no matter if its straight or fully cranked. when they go you wil hear a grind or kind of a fast popping sound on turns.
its probably a good idea to have them checked if you find yourself at a lube shop. they can at least tell you if the sleeve is in good shape.
as for your noise…I am gonna have to agree with tranny fluid or other transmission problems. its not the clutch or at least not the usual wear and tear on your clutch. sounds like you lost a few teeth in first gear and its slipping until you get up to speed. the reason it goes away is because the other gears are fine.
Hmm… Front-wheel drive? I’m thinking transmission-related problems would be coming from right in front of the driver. I don’t rule out transmission problems, but how’s the brakes on this car?
Test: What happens if you point the car downhill and just let it roll forward from standstill of its own accord, gearbox in neutral and engine just idling, clutch out? If it still screeches, it could be the brakes or wheel bearings. I’d check and eliminate these as potential problems first before turning to the transmission - they’re much easier and cheaper to fix than the transmission!
If it is the transmission, it’s somewhere on the **output side or intermediate/layshaft **(because it screeches when pulling away in 1st or 2nd) most probably one (or both) of the output shaft bearings or the oil seal - although oil seal is a long shot.
I’d rule out CV’s - they usually go cluk-cluk-cluk, esp. going around corners, when worn out. They don’t screech.
Yes, it’s a front wheel drive, and yes, the noise seems to be coming from the driver’s side … sort of in front of me and underneath me, but I could be wrong.
I was told a couple of months ago that the seal around the oil gasket was seeping a bit … but that it was nothing to worry about because it wasn’t leaking or anything.
The brakes are good, and venterap I haven’t tried your test, but it wouldn’t be consistent with the actual symptoms of this problem. It happens when accelerating from a standstill, and at no other time. Thanks though!
Yuck … this is sounding like an expensive, worrisome problem. I’m going to take it to a garage tomorrow to have it checked out, and hopefully whatever the problem is, I can afford to have it fixed soon!
But if it was the CV joints you’d hear a loud “click” beyond 1/4 steering lock. I had them replaced three times on mine ('97 EX) and never heard anything other than the click, and never when steering straight ahead.
Just spoke to the mechanic - he drove it around for a while this morning - and once the engine got really warm, he didn’t hear the noise anymore.
His best guesses - (a) the release bearing needs to be replaced (which means taking out the transmission or something - OUCH!!!) or (b) there’s a belt that’s loose or something.
He’s going to let it cool off and try it again this afternoon. He says because it’s not consistent, it’s not harmful and is nothing to worry about.
Upon reviewing this post - I realize how little I gleaned from my conversation with the guy …
Not having observed the symptom personally, I’m just armchair quarterbacking here, but here are my thoughts:
Belts can make some remarkable noises, and the noise you described could be a belt noise, BUT…I can’t think of a reason it would only make noise on take-off. It’s typical for some belt noises to be more prominent with a cold engine, but in my experience they usually occur when the car is started, still in park or neutral.
The release bearing is under pressure whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. There’s no difference in the stress on the release bearing relative to which gear is selected or whether one is taking off or coasting. The situation when the symptom occurs is not consistent with any release bearing noise I’ve experienced.
Usually it’s a good sign if a symptom is not consistent, but that doesn’t mean it’s definitely not something serious or damaging.
It sounds like nothing significant has been determined yet.
A hijack here-but I also experience a noise every now and then on taking off when flooring (need to get out quick because of uncoming traffic-nothing I do as an everytime thing.)
I notice a moan,almost bottoming out noise (like when going over speed bumps) from the driver’s side front-could be tire/wheel well -area.
My initial thought was shock/possible tire rub on inside fender (tho the body’s not damaged in any way.No noises any other time.)
I also ** could ** be turning slightly to the left when it happens.At least that what I was doing last night last time I heard it.
Tried the bounce up and down on fender test for shocks and hear no noise,nor unusual recover time.