Cybertrucks falling apart

This?

Probably - - 516 Upstream Certificate CN Mismatch

Does that mean they moved their archive and haven’t updated their new address?

The address matches what I was remembering.

However, as Nelson points out in the video below, there are some situations where even a properly balanced trailer could transfer its whole weight on the tow hitch, such as big potholes at highway speeds. “If I see a Cybertruck towing on the freeway, I would not want to be anywhere close to that thing,” the YouTuber said.

To make matters worse, some questionable building methods were revealed. For starters, the thickness of the cast aluminum frame is very thin, measuring between 3/16 and 1/8 of an inch. That’s 4 and 3 millimeters, which is good for vehicle weight, but not great for long-term strength. Furthermore, some sections seem to be held together with glue and rivets.

Tesla Cybertruck Tow Hitch Stress Test Results In Catastrophic Failure: If I see a Cybertruck towing on the freeway, I would not want to be anywhere close to that thing.”

https://insideevs.com/news/753092/tesla-cybertruck-tow-hitch-stress-test/

Surely a good driver can avoid potholes? [Unfortunately I flunk that test]

You can avoid [something] if you can have line of sight to it, observe it, recognize it for what it is, decide whether / how to avoid, make your inputs, and have the entire vehicle string react enough to ensure the vehicle string and [something] do not overlap before the [something] arrives where you are.

On a busy road of any sort, the hardest part is usually #1. Measured in time you’re following closer than allows an adequate observe, decide, act time buffer. Before somebody says “quit tailgating”, at highway speed you probably need to be 10 or more seconds behind the vehicle ahead. You don’t want to be horsing the steering at highways speeds with a trailer.

Easy enough in low to nil traffic. Substantially impossible on urban / suburban freeways with any realistic amount of daytime non-rush hour traffic. Also impossible on even lower-speed roads that contain curves or hills.

Sightlines are simply too short to enact the 1940s advice to “always be able to stop before you get to the edge of what you can see.”

Most of the time I’ve center-punched a pothole has been when it appears out from under the car ahead about 3 seconds before I’m into it.

Or when the pothole is a trench that spans the entire road. Doesn’t matter if you see that one.

But I’m confused. I thought that the body of a Cybertruck was all one single piece, and that it relied on that for most of its structural strength.

The exoskeleton myth was busted before it was even released, and despite protestations by Tesla PR and true believers, the stainless steel panels are mostly glued on and provide very little, if any, structure.

The gigacast frame pieces underneath are both an engineering marvel and a terrible place to bolt a tow hitch to.

I’ve not watched the vid. Does the CT contain built-in provisions for trailer hithces? Like coming with a standard square socket? Or at least mounting pads reinforced for that load and called out as such in the tech docs?

Or are there no provisions and 3rd party companies are now MacGyvering how to attach a trailer hitch effectively to a structure that was not designed at all to have one attached?

It’s built in, but it’s a steel bar bolted to cast aluminum.

That is an awesome video. Thanks for sharing it.

I can’t believe (well, I can believe) that there’s essentially no tolerance between the rated towing capacity and the max weight it can actually hold. I would have expected that something with an 11k towing capacity could handle 1.5 or 2x that amount, to deal with transients like potholes, etc., plus weakening over time (which, according to the video, aluminum does and steel doesn’t).

Well, that’s some first-rate engineering! What could possibly go wrong?

Stranger

At least they used titanium bolts for techbro cool. Shame about the brass nuts. :wink:

Not only that, but it failed at 10,000 pounds, so if it’s supposed to be rated at 11K, it didn’t even achieve the nominal rating, let alone have ample reserves for transient stress and for weakening with age.

Maybe I have a bit of confirmation bias, but it seems that everything I hear about the Cybertruck is synonymous with “piece of shit”.

Also, for those who didn’t watch the video, after the bottom of the rear end fell off, the mighty Cybertruck displayed two dozen different error messages and would no longer drive. It had to be towed away.

Reality has a ‘confirmation bias’ for facts over hype regardless of how many screaming Muskrats yell otherwise.

Stranger

See also this post (and subsequent) about CT hype/reality disconnects:

It appears to be very well designed and built given the constraints placed on the engineering team.

Which is the polite way of saying they did a good job considering Elmo told them to polish a turd.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t towing capacity refer to the weight of the trailer? I can’t imagine any driving situation (potholes or not) where the entire weight of the trailer is suspended from the hitch*. The Tesla hitch is rated at 1,100 lbs. tongue weight. So it failed somewhere around 9.5 times its rated capacity. Not bad. I’m not a Tesla fan, but the test in the video isn’t about towing capacity, it’s about tongue weight.
*OK, there is one situation. You’re parked and a sinkhole opens up behind your truck and swallows your 11,000 lbs. trailer whole. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses: But that seems unlikely in normal use.

The “tongue weight” rating is a static load. The dynamic load induced by driving over bumps or rough pavement is some factor of that; I think at a minimum I would expect a 2X dynamic load factor, and then add even more margin for any connection which might actually damage the frame. Given what I’ve seen of the various issues of the Cybertruck, it is pretty clear that there wasn’t a lot of structural engineering analysis done, and certainly a real lack of human factors engineering on many aspects of the vehicle.

Stranger

That sounds like a feature, not a bug. The thing shouldn’t be driven when its structural is compromised.

I guess the question is: what are the dynamic loads imposed on a hitch? And how do you measure them? They are clearly not all, or even mostly, vertical. I’d even guess that the biggest loads are horizontal tension/compression mixed with a little torsion and some side to side loads. The video tests none of those. I’m not arguing that the design is any good, just that the video doesn’t provide any real information. (I can’t believe I’m sort of defending Tesla. I think Elon is an idiot.)

I can certainly sympathize. It’s the general phenomenon of people attacking something they don’t like, and not paying attention to whether or not their attack is justified, even if their dislike is justified.

In this case, though, it looks like there might be something to Cybertruck problem. The article goes into the same “tongue weight” arguments listed here, that the hitch is supposed to carry 1100 pounds, not 11,000.

However, a comment on the article, probably only 30 minutes old from the time I’m posting this, refers to SAE J684, which defines the forces a hitch needs to handle.

If I’m reading it right, and the commenter is reading it right, then the hitch should be able to handle 1.3\times the gross weight of the trailer for 5 seconds. So 14,300 pounds for 3 seconds. The force should be added at a rate of 150 pounds/second, so the video may have exceeded that (I haven’t watched it).

If I understand it correctly, and I may not (automotive engineering is an alternative life path I did not take), the test should consist of adding weight over \approx 90 seconds until 14,300 pounds is reached, and then it should be able to hold that for 5 seconds before failure.

Another big caveat, J684 applies to trailers up to 10,000 pounds gross weight, but I can’t imagine that an 11,000 pound trailer would require lower tolerances.

So that’s my long winded way of saying that the Cybertruck probably does have a towing problem.