Czarcasm, I'd like to continue this conversation...

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

It has already been explained(more than once) that my comment on Oakminster’s post had nothing to do with my being a moderator, and it has been shown that I did do something about the offending post, and I have had to explain what should already be known by those who have complained in this thread about my supposed slowness in responding-that you shouldn’t expect a personal response for every post you report, and that you really shouldn’t expect any answer back you do get to be immediate, because we have lives outside the SDMB.
If you are really having trouble understanding what kinds of topics are better suited for Great Debates(and I know you’ve been here long enough to know, so I suspect this is just posturing on your part), why don’t you just go there and have a looksee?

Again, you’re attempting to ignore your own responsibility for your inappropriate response to the initial PM.

Also, if, as you claim, you were not moderating in your reply to me in GD, do you honestly believe a non-moderator could have made a similar post–discussing the “level and tone” of my post and implying it should be in the Pit, without risking sanction for Junior Modding? I don’t believe that. Also believe that if a poster doing that would be Junior Modding, then either you were actually moderating, or you broke the rules that apply to posters. Either way, your conduct is indefensible.

Also, I’ll point out that this is not the first time you’ve played the “Am I moderating or not” card when you make snarky, off topic comments usually posted as a personal attack on someone. You did it with me once before, right hereI flat out asked you if you did it as a Mod or as a Poster, and you answered something like “Which way will get you to do what I want”. You seem to like to throw your weight as a moderator around, without actually accepting responsibility for acting like a moderator.

Still want an explanation and apology for the “level and tone” of your comments to me in this thread and in response to the PM. I have not offered you rudeness or incivility thus far. You have snarled at me, insinuated I’m doing innppropriate things. and otherwise done everything except what a moderator should have done in this situation–treat my PM seriously, and respond to it courteously.

Also, I think you have behaved so poorly in this thread that you are presently in violation of the “Don’t be a jerk” rule. You have been a jerk, intentionally, with malice aforethought, to me. Your posts in this thread are my cite. I think your conduct falls considerably below the standard of conduct expected of SDMB Moderators.

And–it should not be expected that posters search GD to determine what sorts of threads go there and only there, when one moderator has suddenly decided to start inventing rules that directly contradict the description of IMHO, and say NO DEBATES IN MY FORUM DAMMIT. It is incumbant upon the moderator to clarify his newly invented rule…which again seems to mostly be “Conservatives get a short leash, because I hate them all. Liberals can do anything they want–and help me snark at evil conservatives”.

Please note–I am not a “problem poster”. I have never received a single warning here. I generally do not break rules. I enjoy very cordial relations with all of the other mods. They may or may not like me as a person, but they uniformly treat me with courtesy and respect, just as I do them. I’ve got quite a few emails like “Thanks for reporting that post, good catch”. Got a few “Thanks for reporting that post, but I disagree because…”. Mods do not always see things the way I see them, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with your attitude towards me as displayed here in this thread.

[Czarcasm]

@Oakminster

Also, I’ll point out that this is not the first time you’ve played the “Am I moderating or not” card when you make snarky, off topic comments usually posted as a personal attack on someone. You did it with me once before, right hereI flat out asked you if you did it as a Mod or as a Poster, and you answered something like “Which way will get you to do what I want”. You seem to like to throw your weight as a moderator around, without actually accepting responsibility for acting like a moderator.

That isn’t anything near what I said in that post. I was clearly asking if your answer would be more honest depending on whether i was asking as a poster or as a moderator.

[Czarcasm]

@Oakminster

And–it should not be expected that posters search GD to determine what sorts of threads go there and only there, when one moderator has suddenly decided to start inventing rules that directly contradict the description of IMHO, and say NO DEBATES IN MY FORUM DAMMIT. It is incumbant upon the moderator to clarify his newly invented rule…which again seems to mostly be “Conservatives get a short leash, because I hate them all. Liberals can do anything they want–and help me snark at evil conservatives”.

1. I have never said “No debating at all!”.
2. I consider the charge that I would let politics influence my moderating to be the biggest insult you could possibly throw in my direction. It didn’t happen, it hasn’t happened, and it will never happen.

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

That isn’t anything near what I said in that post. I was clearly asking if your answer would be more honest depending on whether i was asking as a poster or as a moderator.

You are still ducking and evading the issue at hand. There, a simple “Yes, I am speaking as a Moderator” or “No, I am not speaking as a Moderator” would have directly answered the question asked. Woulda have prevented further unpleasantness in that thread, too.

Just like you doing the right thing, and simply answering my legitimate questions without trying to bite my head off in PM and then this thread, would have prevented further unpleasantries. Instead, you’ve repeatedly insulted me, used overly harsh “level and tone” (get used to that phrase, it is yours, and I’ll likely be using it any time we have a disagreement), accused me of wrongdoing, and otherwise danced around the issues that prompted this thread.

Essentially, you’re a strongly partisan lefty. You have little but contempt for anyone that disagrees with your radical agenda, and lately you’ve been showing that bias in your moderating. If I had made a comment similar to the “all anti abortion advocates = NAMBLA/KKK” in your forum, but targeted some liberal group, you would have warned me…and being you, probably would try to get me banned…but when a liberal does it targeting a conservative group you hate anyway, it’s no harm, no foul. That is not fair, Czarcasm. If you’re going to be a mod, you need to call it down the middle. If a liberal can do it, then a conservative can do it. If a conservative would get warned/noted/snarked for doing it, then a liberal should also get warned/noted/snarked for the same conduct.

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

1. I have never said “No debating at all!”.
2. I consider the charge that I would let politics influence my moderating to be the biggest insult you could possibly throw in my direction. It didn’t happen, it hasn’t happened, and it will never happen.

It has happened in the past–remember when you jumped all over Airman Doors in a gun thread, when he was clearly provoked by a lefty?

It happened here. Der Trihs went over the line in your forum, but you did nothing about it–when you had already jumped all over me in GD for similar hyperbole. The difference is that your forum has tighter rules than GD does, so modly intervention was warranted there. However, because you happen to agree with** Der Trihs** that all conservatives, and especially those that oppose abortion, are scum, equivalent to NAMBLA and KKK, you did nothing about it.

It will happen again in the future. You don’t think things done by liberals are offensive or break rules because you agree with them. Let somebody support the Second Amendment, or take the conservative side of any issue, and you will treat them more harshly than you would a liberal.

Objectively, I believe your political bias clearly affects your moderating.

Also, while you claim you have not said “No Debating”, you have also refused to provide any clarification s to exactly what is and is not allowed in IMHO. You have ignored repeated suggestions to change the description of the forum, which clearly conflicts with the way you moderate that place.

[Czarcasm]

@Oakminster

You are still ducking and evading the issue at hand. There, a simple “Yes, I am speaking as a Moderator” or “No, I am not speaking as a Moderator” would have directly answered the question asked. Woulda have prevented further unpleasantness in that thread, too.

Just like you doing the right thing, and simply answering my legitimate questions without trying to bite my head off in PM and then this thread, would have prevented further unpleasantries. Instead, you’ve repeatedly insulted me, used overly harsh “level and tone” (get used to that phrase, it is yours, and I’ll likely be using it any time we have a disagreement), accused me of wrongdoing, and otherwise danced around the issues that prompted this thread.

Essentially, you’re a strongly partisan lefty. You have little but contempt for anyone that disagrees with your radical agenda, and lately you’ve been showing that bias in your moderating. If I had made a comment similar to the “all anti abortion advocates = NAMBLA/KKK” in your forum, but targeted some liberal group, you would have warned me…and being you, probably would try to get me banned…but when a liberal does it targeting a conservative group you hate anyway, it’s no harm, no foul. That is not fair, Czarcasm. If you’re going to be a mod, you need to call it down the middle. If a liberal can do it, then a conservative can do it. If a conservative would get warned/noted/snarked for doing it, then a liberal should also get warned/noted/snarked for the same conduct.

In that post, neither one of you got so much as a personal Moderator’s Note. I moved the thread to Great Debates because the both of you, and others, decided to turn it into a debate. I took action that favored neither side. I don’t know where the hell you get that “strong radical agenda” crap from, so I’m not even going to respond to that nonsense.

[Czarcasm]

@Oakminster

Also, while you claim you have not said “No Debating”, you have also refused to provide any clarification s to exactly what is and is not allowed in IMHO. You have ignored repeated suggestions to change the description of the forum, which clearly conflicts with the way you moderate that place.

Polls about politics, religion, gun control, abortion and other such topics that get people into hysterical fits are o.k. for IMHO. Debates about these hair-trigger topics belong in Great Debates. The problem about polling when it comes to these topics is that some people cannot control themselves and feel that they just have to “defend their honor”, ignore the fact that the thread is a poll and respond immediately, instead of just taking it to Great Debates(with perhaps a link to the post that tripped their trigger).

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

In that post, neither one of you got so much as a personal Moderator’s Note. I moved the thread to Great Debates because the both of you, and others, decided to turn it into a debate. I took action that favored neither side. I don’t know where the hell you get that “strong radical agenda” crap from, so I’m not even going to respond to that nonsense.

Again you pick and choose what to reply to, while ignoring larger issues.

Here, your bias was evident in that you did not issue a Note or at least comment in a modly fashion that Der Trihs went too far in your forum. He was the instigator, and responsible for the escalation in that thread. Had you done the right thing, and noted or otherwise commented him, and issued a general “No Debating, even though the forum description says you can exchange frank views, and I have never spelled out the difference between exchanging frank views and debating” type admonishion, the thread could have been steered back on track. Instead, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, looking for any possible way to suggest that I, or any conservative, was at fault for that thread. If you were truly unbiased as you claim to be, you would have acted on D-T’s post.

Also, the issue of your rude and inappropriate response to my PM is not going away. You plan to address that any time soon?

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

Polls about politics, religion, gun control, abortion and other such topics that get people into hysterical fits are o.k. for IMHO. Debates about these hair-trigger topics belong in Great Debates. The problem about polling when it comes to these topics is that some people cannot control themselves and feel that they just have to “defend their honor”, ignore the fact that the thread is a poll and respond immediately, instead of just taking it to Great Debates(with perhaps a link to the post that tripped their trigger).

That needs to be clarified, and stickied in the forum. Also, the description of the forum needs to be changed…frank exchanges of views on less than cosmic topics no longer applies.

Also, that “defend their honor” nonsense is further indication of your bias. How often have you invoked that against a liberal? Not nearly as often as you have, do, and will against conservatives. You will ignore the first punch, as long as a liberal throws it…but if a conservative tries to hit back, you want to go all Mod Hat ON, and jump on them.

But you continue to respond to side issues here. We’re really talking about your rudeness and conduct unbecoming a moderator.

[Czarcasm]

@Oakminster

That needs to be clarified, and stickied in the forum. Also, the description of the forum needs to be changed…frank exchanges of views on less than cosmic topics no longer applies.

Also, that “defend their honor” nonsense is further indication of your bias. How often have you invoked that against a liberal? Not nearly as often as you have, do, and will against conservatives. You will ignore the first punch, as long as a liberal throws it…but if a conservative tries to hit back, you want to go all Mod Hat ON, and jump on them.

But you continue to respond to side issues here. We’re really talking about your rudeness and conduct unbecoming a moderator.

You don’t want me to address an issue that you brought up in the first place?
You have accused me of having a radical leftist agenda, and of my using it to influence my moderating, in this very thread.
In this very thread, where you initially claimed all you really wanted was a reasonable response, it seems that you had already determined that my response would be some sort of leftist excuse.

This dance is over-go find another partner.

[Oakminster]

@Czarcasm

You don’t want me to address an issue that you brought up in the first place?
You have accused me of having a radical leftist agenda, and of my using it to influence my moderating, in this very thread.
In this very thread, where you initially claimed all you really wanted was a reasonable response, it seems that you had already determined that my response would be some sort of leftist excuse.

This dance is over-go find another partner.

And this is the second time you’ve tried to end the discussion without ever replying on the merits of the original questions. You have yet to provide a non-snarky, non-hostile, reasonable response, and made it pretty clear you have no intention of doing so.

For the umpteenth time, I would very much appreciate it if you could explain how your inexcusably rude and dismissive response to my PM was proper moderating. You, Czarcasm, screwed up. You can’t make it go away by accusing me of misconduct, or throwing up any other issue you can think of to distract attention from your misconduct.

[Tapioca_Dextrin]

It’s just message board dude, not real life :rolleyes:

[bucketybuck]

@Tapioca_Dextrin

It’s just message board dude, not real life :rolleyes:

Its inane bullshit like this thread that is diluting any real problems people could bring to ATMB.

I wasn’t sure it could even happen, but I am gaining a lot of symphathy for the mods here. Some of the petty whinging they are subjected too, it is no wonder they are beginning to snap back more and more often.

[crypto]

Can TPTB just make Oakminster a mod already and be done with it?

It would save us all from threads like this.

Good grief.

[Oakminster]

@Stink Fish Pot

Can TPTB just make Oakminster a mod already and be done with it?

It would save us all from threads like this.

Good grief.

I’d accept that deal. And I’d even work with **Czarcasm **in good faith.

[VinylTurnip]

@Oakminster

But you continue to respond to side issues here. We’re really talking about your rudeness and conduct unbecoming a moderator.

“Don’t change the subject… we’re talking about what an *asshole *you are!”

[Oakminster]

@VinylTurnip

“Don’t change the subject… we’re talking about what an *asshole *you are!”

Yeah! That or maybe I get excessively cranky sometimes. One of those.

[crypto]

@Oakminster

I’d accept that deal. And I’d even work with **Czarcasm **in good faith.

If I could make this happen for you, it would be done.

But since I’m irrelevant here, I’m afraid I’m no real help. :smack:

[Irishman]

Czarcasm, your tone is definitely coming off a bit dismissive and unresponsive. And this post certainly is a puzzler:

Czarcasm said:

@Oakminster

May I please have a reasonable response/explanation?

No, you may not. While a response may or may not come(People who say “Jump!” at me tend to be disappointed at my reaction-fancy that), whether or not it is “reasonable” will not be decided by you. I’m not ignorant enough to fall for that little trap, where I give you an answer, you deem it “not responsible” and then claim I broke some sort of implied promise.

While I guess I can see what you are preempting, this just comes off as rude and dismissive, like you’re not even going to try.

Oakminster said:

Also, your recent insistence that some topics should “obviously” be debated in GD is problematic–there is no list of such topics,

Oh come on, you’re saying you don’t know that debates on politics, abortion, and religion belong in GD?

Health Care Reform is considerably less than cosmic, and a “frank exchange of views” ensued.

Actually, Health Care Reform fits under politics, and belongs in GD. Furthermore, the issue that got it moved wasn’t HCR, it was the distraction over abortion.

Ideally, I’d like for him to have acted … and at least observed that equating all people who oppose abortion with NAMBLA and the KKK is frowned upon in IMHO, or other such modly intervention, …

That would have been appropriate.

Czarcasm said:

Originally Posted by Oakminster
Also, I’ll point out that this is not the first time you’ve played the “Am I moderating or not” card when you make snarky, off topic comments usually posted as a personal attack on someone. You did it with me once before, right here I flat out asked you if you did it as a Mod or as a Poster, and you answered something like “Which way will get you to do what I want”. You seem to like to throw your weight as a moderator around, without actually accepting responsibility for acting like a moderator.

That isn’t anything near what I said in that post. I was clearly asking if your answer would be more honest depending on whether i was asking as a poster or as a moderator.

I don’t think it was as clear as you think. It could be perceived as a power play instead of as a rhetorical response.

[Oakminster]

@Irishman

Oh come on, you’re saying you don’t know that debates on politics, abortion, and religion belong in GD?

No, I don’t know that they* belong *there, do know that **Czarcasm **tends to send them there for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

Also, not sure I know what the difference between a “frank exchange of views” and a “debate” is. I think I can say something like “I like guns” in IMHO. Someone on the other side could probably say “I don’t like guns”. The problem is then what happens? Can I ask the opponent “Why don’t you like guns”? Can I tell the opponent “You should like guns because of X,Y,Z”? What if the opponent says something like “Gun nuts like to wave their big explosive penises to intimidate liberals”. Do I get to respond at all? Czarcasm has shown that he generally will not moderate liberals for saying provocative, inflammatory, and insulting things–in the instance that prompted this thread, reporting the statement did no good, yet those statements should be challenged, particularly on a board supposedly dedicated to fighting ignorance.

Otherwise, thank you for your post, Irishman. You did a better job of explaining some things than I have.