D.C. Sniper wasn't a true convert because he kept his Christian first names?

Factual Questions
1

Recently Collounsbury said–and I’m sorry the hamsters aren’t cooperating or I’d post the link :mad: --something like, “You can tell John Allen Muhammad wasn’t a true convert to Islam because he kept his Christian first names.” I mentioned to this to someone at this end, who immediately got his panties in a bunch, because he wants the D.C. sniper to be a “See? Moslems hate Americans!” thing, and if the sniper isn’t a true Moslem, that’s very threatening. He said, “He converted 17 years ago! And what about Louis Farrakhan? He’s got a Christian first name–is he not a true convert?”

So, what are the rules for changing your name? Is it fair to say that the sniper isn’t a true convert? Setting aside the obvious “Real Moslems are Men of Peace and don’t normally set up sniper platforms in the trunk of a Chevy Caprice…”

Profile.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/10/24/muhammad.profile/index.html

Or does NOI just have different rules than mainstream Islam?

2

A lot of members of the Nation of Islam have, when they become NOI, kept their first names but changed their last. So, Elijah Poole becomes Elijah Muhammed, Malcolm Little became Malcolm X, Louis Walcott became Louis Farakhan, etc. Converts to Islam, for the most part, do not do that.

So, when you hear that the suspected sniper changed his name to John Allen Mohammed, that suggests that he might be a member of the NOI.

3

I refer you to the last few paragraphs of this news conference by Louis Farrakhan. Specifically:

From this, I gather that for the NOI, it isn’t necessary to take on an Islamic first name. Farrakhan, after all, kept his first name, as did Elijah Muhammad, the Nation’s founder.

4

Well, okay, then, the next logical question is, “Is the NOI ‘real’ Islam?”

Doesn’t somebody have a GD thread going on this somewhere?

5

“Doesn’t somebody have a GD thread going on this somewhere?”
Yes, in the last few days. The hamsters aren’t cooperating or I’d post the link :stuck_out_tongue: The answer seemed to be tending towards No, NOI is not widely accepted as part of the mainstream.

6

Briefly, no the Nation of Islam is considered a heretical sect at best. They are not eligible for the Hajj and must do formal conversion to a Sunni (or Shi’a) Imam to do so. I think that unambiguously answers the question.

In re the issue of name change, the issue comes down to the interpretation of Sunnah in re reference to “non-Islamic” religion. While liberal theologians largely hold that name change is not necessary, conservatives and historical practice have held that just about any name with ‘pre-Islamic’ referants is not halal. My personal experience has been that the majority of converts if they bother with name change, change Xian names and the majority view in the region is that this is absolutely necessary.

Like the issue of wearing a beard (and trimming it etc.) this gets into minutia. A hallmark of Islamists is attention to such rules.

Everything about this guy says NOI or NOI influenced superficial change, political posturing.

7

Okay.

Because, like, I told him you were this person who had on-the-ground experience with this sort of thing (North Africa, yes?) and he was, like, “Well, maybe that’s true of Islam in North Africa, but maybe in America, you can convert to Islam and still keep your Christian names…”

So it’s a NOI vs. mainstream thing, not a North Africa vs. America thing, yes?

Okay.

8

Or, perhaps we can phrase the question as: Is it written anywhere in the Qu’ran, or stipulated under shar’ia (as promulgated variously around the world), that Muslims are required to have a fully Islamic name?

John Allen Muhammad was a member of the NOI, and that is what led to his name change. As such, he can be classified as a Black Muslim (as NOI self-refer) – but probably not a “true” Muslim in the eyes of many Shi’ite or Sunni.

9

Another question… what’re the rules with using “Moslem” over “Muslim”? I’ve always been taught the latter is correct.

10

My experience spans the entire Arab world, although I have a greater fondness for North Africa.

In re the issue, it all revolves around interpretation of the Hadith regarding what constitutes an unacceptable ‘pre-Islamic’ name.

Of course, in America, you can change you name to Sunbeam Allah Akbar Mohammed if you want to. That doesn’t change the fact that it will be looked dimly upon by the more orthodox. Your co-worker seems to have this entirely unsupportable belief there is some “church” in Islam that sets rules. There ain’t, but the prevailing popular practice suggests conversion requires change to what is considered properly Islamic, as noted in prior post.

In re NOI: not some, the body of Sunnis and Shiites consider NOI to be non-Muslim. It’s really not controversial, NOI’s very racial id and other practices make it incompatible with normal Islamic practice. (e.g. “Black Muslim” is itself heretical)

I feel extremely confident discounting a “Islamic” connection for this guy.

11

Transliteration I suppose. Muslim strikes me as closer to the Arabic/Islamic term, meaning adherent to Islam. Mim [dumma] sin [sikoun] lam [kesra] mim in Arabic. Moslem is a bit of mispronunciation, but I don’t know anyone who’s particularly bent out of shape about that. Mohammedan, now that people find offensive, although it strikes me as originating as an innocent miscomprehension on the part of Western Xians.

12

The people who object to it do so because “Moslem” (they claim), sounds like it comes from the root “zulm”, meaning evil. As the Islamic Society of Greater Kansas City says:

http://isgkc.org/introduc.htm

However, it’s probably oversensitivity on the objectors’ part.

13

You find it in Muslim usage too, don’t you? I mean, there are occassional references to the umma being called the “Ummat al-Muhammadiyya” instead of the Ummat al-Islam.

14

I’ve also encountered this attitude at work. Some people want very badly for this guy to be part of the jihad with those who attacked the WTC.
Good thread, Thanks.
Peace,
mangeorge

15

The sense is different: it really refers to Mohammed’s community and doesn’t contain the same connotation as Mohmmedan or Xianity, at least in my understanding of the phrase. Of course, I am NOT a theologian and can only report on popular attitudes - on that I can report well but…

In re the Moslem -Zulm connexion, that’s just plain ignorant and stupid. Those fuckheads are just searching for reasons to be offended. Mohammedan I can understand to an extent (at least as a preference not to use) but Moslem?

16

Well, I dunno, one of my thesis committee members made me change the spelling to from Moslem to Muslim throughout the text (except for direct cites, of course), and he’s generally a very reasonable and non-uptight guy. Is there some debate throughout the literature on this issue of which I am not aware? (If it matters, he specializes in the practice of Islam in the FSU, but in his research tends more toward the religious/Islamic than the political/Slavics side of things, having recently written a book on Sufi shrines.)

17

Anyone heard of the “Five Percenter” sect? It is a splinter group from the NOI. It was founded by a former NOI member, Clarence “Pudding” 13X, in 1964. Their official name is “Nation of Gods and Earths.” They believe that they are the chosen 5% of humanity. They see 85% of humankind as doomed to self-destruction; another 10% has right knowledge but use it to deceive the majority. The headquarters of the group continues to be in Harlem, although the Five Percenters have branches in major U.S. cities and in many prisons. Five Percenters are highly visible in the rap music industry, using rap lyrics to spread the 5 Percent ideology, called the Science of Supreme Mathematics.

Its doctrine holds that the Black Man is God. All Black Men are “Gods.” They explain the name “Allah” anthropomorphically, saying that the letters stand for “Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head.”

Obviously this is far, far outside the pale of anything that could ever be recognized as genuine Islam. But if John Allen Whatsisname belonged to that sect, it would explain something that is otherwise inexplicable: his repeated assertion “I am God.” Since it’s impossible for a genuine Muslim to say any such thing, only a Five Percenter could come up with a line like that. Something about this whole story is really fishy and we haven’t gotten to the bottom of it yet.

P.S. Not to get too sidetracked from the OP, but …
Muslim is considered the correct way to transliterate the word from the Arabic alphabet, because the vowels e and o do not exist in Standard Arabic. It has only 3 vowels: a, i, and u. Academic scholars who write on Arabic and Islamic subjects are expected to use the standardized transliteration, such as the system used by the Library of Congress.

Click here for a .pdf of the LoC Arabic romanization system:

Even if you don’t know the Arabic alphabet, you can see from it which characters are used by scholars and librarians in transliterating it.

Besides, the Standard (fus.há) Arabic pronunciation of the first vowel in Muslim sounds like the u in push or pull, not like o; the second vowel sounds like the i in pin, not like e. It’s just plain more accurate to write “Muslim.”