Come on! What were those big, black, evil-looking metal plates that Bruce Payne (Damodar) was wearing in the movie, if not plate mail or plate armor?! Are the Wizards of the Coast folks saying that those were merely “decorative” metal plates? Are they saying he’d just washed his dishes and hung them on his body to dry? Are they saying that those black bodyplates are chain mail, just with really really really big metal links?!
I miss the old 5-foot radius +3 ring of protection. Now a ring of protection doesn’t even improve your saving throws, let alone improve anybody’s saving throws 5 feet away.
The webmaster of the D&D Movie website just posted a huge rant about the D&D movie’s poor performance at the box office. What he said, basically, was “How DARE you not go and see this movie! This was Courtney Solomon’s DREAM! He worked so HARD on this movie! You have a DUTY to see this movie whether you liked it or not!”
Now, I used to think the webmaster was a cool guy, but now I think he’s gone off the deep end. We should see the movie because Courtney worked so HARD on it? Oh please. Does he have any idea how many starving screenwriters there are in Hollywood who have ALL worked so HARD on their screenplays for YEARS without them ever seeing the inside of a movie studio? At least Courtney got his movie made, which is more than thousands of hard-working writers can EVER say. And now he’s mad because the movie wasn’t POPULAR too? I’m afraid that hard work alone is NOT a guarantee of success; not now, not EVER. No matter what your OPINION of the movie’s quality is, the FACT is that the majority of the moviegoing public did not like it that much, and THAT is what Donsimus seems unable to accept. He goes on to say this:
Ok, so apparently it’s not the film’s fault it wasn’t popular, it’s the AUDIENCE’S fault for not being intelligent enough to appreciate Courtney’s genius. And “at least they TRIED”?! What kind of argument is that? Is that like saying the film wasn’t very good, but the filmmakers did their BEST? Well, as Sean Connery said in The Rock, “Your BEST?! LOSERS whine about their BEST!” In the real world, people don’t get A’s for effort; they get A’s for RESULTS.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I think the film had SOME good points. The special effects, for instance, were top-notch, so it wasn’t the low budget that was the problem. And, believe me, I wanted this film to be good. I was on that website every day looking for new information. I watched both trailers and I thought they were excellent. I thought that there was no WAY the film could let me down after all of that. I was wrong. The best thing I can say is that it wasn’t that bad. I’m afraid that just isn’t good enough, not for me, or for the majority of the moviegoing public. Donsimus seems to think we should contribute money to the Courtney Solomon Charity. Well, sorry. I’ve seen it more than once, so I’ve done my duty to God and my country. But I REFUSE to pay any more for a movie that just doesn’t entertain me. That’s what a movie is supposed to do, isn’t it? Perhaps that’s what the filmmakers forgot.
Well, I think that with regards to that (and the other stats discrepancies), WotC is just trying to make a roleplaying session with those characters challenging. I mean, would it be difficult in the slightest if you start a game with a fully-developed character?
Hey, Tracer, here’s a plan… why don’t we all start working on what we think the stats really SHOULD be for the movie characters?
ricksummon, I agree with your comments. The sad point is that Donsimus is at least partially right - the movie studios will look at this as a test of the public’s appreciation of that theme of movie. If it was a box office success, they would have lept at any fantasy themed project for the next 2 years, especially involving dragons and sorcery. But by not doing well at the box office, the next person with a project will have a hard sell - “We did Dungeons and Dragons and lost money. Nobody wants to see these type movies. They just aren’t profitable.” With any luck LotR will be good and will reverse the tide.
Nevermind that the problem with “these types of movies” is that they fail to properly adapt the material, remaining true to the intent. And forget that the number one seller of movies is making them good.
First, I should note something on acting. I watch no TV unless I’m at someone else’s house, so I’ve had many years of almost no exposure to the small screen. When all you watch are movies, you tend to get used to a superior acting style, and when you see a television show, the acting seems much worse than it is. That will explain why I’m very picky on acting.
I had the impression that Jeremy Irons was pissed about being asked to do the movie and was trying to ruin it with his extreme overacting. Perhaps Corey Solomon was intimidated by him and let him get away with it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone act so poorly who should know better.
Bruce Payne was just plain stupid. He talked so incredibly slow that he was so incredibly annoying. His blue lips made no sense and did nothing to further the story.
Justin Whalin was okay, but he sounded like a soap opera actor. That indefinable something that makes the difference between a big and small screen actor was missing from him.
Marlon Wayan was just wrong for this movie. His comedic style wasn’t suited for it. While I thought he was absolutely brilliant in Scary Movie (I laughed at every scene he was in), he was the wrong actor to play Snails. And Snails was positively useless. Why would Ridley hang out with a guy that would get them thrown in a dungeon anytime they tried to do anything? He should’ve had at least one skill (brilliant climber, astounding fighter, anything) that he could’ve used when the time called for it.
None of the other actors, except Thora Birch, were too bad. TB was terrible, and I hope she realizes it now.
PLOT
The plot was lame: retrieve an artifact. At least it wasn’t “save the princess”. So much seems to have been cut from the movie that it skipped vitally important scenes. The love story had nothing to do with advancing the plot and served only as one of many plot cliches. The plot holes were numerous. Why would a good empress want a rod of red dragon control? Why did Ridley and the mage enter that map? How was Snails able to call them back out? Why the “Mos Eisley cantina” like scene? It was a tavern filled with humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, lizardmen, orcs and I don’t know what else. Did I miss the announcement that a race relations rally was going on?
Other plot problems have to do with D&D rules. A movie that titles itself Dungeons & Dragons should’ve made as much effort to follow the rules of the game as possible, deviating only when necessary (like the novels do).
Why didn’t the empress consult the gold dragons?
Why did they act more like dumb monsters than the very powerful, spell-casting, talking creatures they are?
Why didn’t the mages cast spells that fit their levels?
Where were the spell components and why did a “magic dust” exist?
Why did the dwarf hit with the flat of his axe rather than the blade? He did. Watch and see.
Do gold dragons cast fireballs? (Not really expecting an answer, as I don’t feel like finding the MM right now)
What the hell was that ending? Where did they go?
Why did they do such a great job of avoiding English text, and at the end, had “Snails” scratched on a rock for all to see? Indecipherable runes would’ve been fine. We would’ve figured it out.
What was that three-eyed blue thing in that town?
Why was that beholder so weak and apparently working for the humans?
SPECIAL EFFECTS
Most of them were okay. The dragon battle was pretty well done, and the beholder looked very good, even if it didn’t do anything. The skeleton holding the rod reminded me of the skeletons in Army of Darkness. I kept expecting him to break out with lame puns like “I’m your bone daddy”. The illusions looked stupid and the spells, with the exception of the Dimension Door (or whatever it was) spell, weren’t all that great.
I’m sure I’m forgetting many other things, but it’s 2:30 in the morning, which explains any incoherence in my review (well, some of it at least).
cj
P.S. Two good things came out of my trip to see the D&D movie. The Final Fantasy trailer and the Tomb Raider trailer. WOW.
I know good acting. I’ve seen High School students who could act the pants off of Jeremy Irons, while stoned. In all the acting classes and shows I’ve been in, I’ve only seen one performance that was anywhere near as bad as Birch’s. And in all the plays and scenes I’ve read, NEVER has a plot sucked so bad as the story in D&D.
It was written, apparently, by gradeschoolers, for gradeschoolers. Bah! Humbug!
I knew I’d forget something. The dialogue in the script was also terrible. It suffered from “As you know” syndrome, and also violated basic principles of speech between two people.
Two people alone in a room together who know each other do not use each others names very much. “Mary, would you get me that book?” “Sure, Bob.” “Oh, and Mary, while you’re at it, hand me that box of nails.” “Of course, Bob.” It wasn’t that bad, but it was close.
“As you know” syndrome is like saying, “As you know, Snails, the locked box is located at the top of the mountain of Stuffage and is guarded by a great red dragon named Mouse.” It’s imparting information for the audience in an unsubtle manner.
Corey Solomon, if you’re reading this: If you can or have fit “as you know” in front of a sentence, redo the sentence. If people do not or would not talk like that normally, DO NOT put it in your story. You end up looking like a moron who doesn’t understand your own species.
I’ll ring in with another bad review for this stink bomb of a movie.
I won’t do a point by point review as the OP and others have already done a great job. Instead, I’ll just mention some of my peeves about the “film” and ask a question or two.
1. The sound sucked. Someone else mentioned that they thought it was due to poor sound in their theater. I beleive that it was poorly mixed. Many times during the movie you cannot hear the dialogue over the background sounds. For an example, see the beginning of the movie where Profion (aka Mister Mumbly) is trying to create his dragon control scepter. I couldn’t understand a word he was saying until after the portculis slammed down on the dragon. The soundtrack also blew cheesy chunks.
2. What there was of the plot careened drunkenly forward. It was so disjointed, I though that it must have been edited by Bill Burroughs. One minute Ripley and what’s her face are arguing, next they are in a map, and the next they are in love? If they were going to put this cliched plot device in the movie, the least they could have done was show it happening rather than have the characters practically state: “Oh, by the way, me and the girlie got it on while in the map.” Also, one minute Ripley and crew are prisoners of the Ice-Elf and the next they are stalking off into the dungeon alone. Meanwhile, Frosty is telling the dwarf that “this is something they have to do on their own.” When did she get a prophecy bulletin regarding the quest?
3. Why oh Why did they feel the need to use cheap Wet N’ Wild make up on Damodar’s lips and on the faces of some of the minor characters (see the itty bitty, skull wearing elves and Ole Three Eyes).
**4. ** How was Damodar (a pure fighter by the looks of it) able to cast a Dimension Door/ Gate/ Whatever spell?
Wow! I have lots more nitpicks, but these are just off the top of my head.
Because a “dungeon” is filled with experience points and gold pieces. Duh.
Oh, wait, you meant a real dungeon, not the giant abandoned underground labyrinths that go on forever and have no discernable purpose, which [A]D&D calls “dungeons”.
You’re only scratching the surface of the similarities between this movie and the Star Wars movies. The elven forest city, with the lights shimmering in the trees, was the Ewok’s treetop city at the end of Return of the Jedi. The wizened old elven cleric, who is little more than a transposed Yoda figure, says that Magic is created by living creatures (in this case, dragons), just like the Force. Ridley’s trip through the Death Maze to get the Eye of the Dragon reminded me of the Indiana Jones movies, which, while not actually Star Wars movies, were created by George Lucas and starred Harrison “Han Solo” Ford.
Maybe they were all hatchling or juvenile dragons. (Not every dragon has to be huge-ancient.) Either that, or the Empress hadn’t learned how to speak Gold Dragon yet. (Maybe she could have communicated with them in the lawful-good language. :rolleyes:)
Subdual damage.
Gold dragons can cast any spells a magic-user can, but they were almost certainly supposed to be using their Breath Weapons in the movie. Gold dragons have 2 breath weapons: a cone of fire like a red dragon’s, and a rectangular cloud of chlorine gas like a green dragon’s. The things they spat in the movie, though, liiked more like fire “bolts”. Just like the, ahem, “fireballs” the other mages were casting at the dragons – “fireballs” which (A) never detonated, even though a fireball spell is always supposed to detonate, and (B) wouldn’t have affected the gold dragons anyway 'cause gold dragons are immune to fire.
If the elven ranger and the dwarven fighter had gone in with Ridley and Snails, they might have prevented Snails from getting killed. And having Marlon Wayans around for the rest of the movie would have been a fate far worse than death. So thank your lucky stars that she stayed away.
As SPOOFE Bo Diddley noted earlier in this thread, he cast the dreaded “Cheap Gimmicky Plot Devices” spell (material components: lots and lots of gold pieces, plus the sacrificial head of the script’s continuity checker).
Seriously, though, I think the “real” excuse is that the symbiotic magical creature living in Damodar’s body cast “word of recall” the instant Damodar had completed his mission.
I ended up watching the movie over the weekend, so I can talk a little more definitively on content now.
I just loved the blue lip gloss of strength. Wasn’t what that was?
And what was the spell Profion casts on the Empress at the end? I believe it was the “magic monkey on your back”. (Yeah, I know it wasn’t a monkey, it’s funnier that way.)
I think one of the problems was this movie suffered from playing to movie cliches and archetypes rather than D&D structure and character types. For instance, the characters were cookie-cutter fantasy film archetypes.
Profion, the super-evil bad guy. His over-acting was his portrayal of the egomaniacal, overbearing evil master villain. That character has three moods: sinister, diabolical, and enraged evil.
Damadar is the uber-henchman. He is the superthug who is the incredible fighter that has to be overcome. And once he is possessed by the mind thing, he takes on Profion’s moods. And overacting.
The Empress is the stock fairy princess that needs to be rescued. Except some miniscule effort was made to mask or subtlely alter that role so it isn’t quite as helpless. Thus she is promoted to full Empress and put in ruling power, but then uses her age and lack of experience as the weekness to thus leave her needing help. While she isn’t helpless and has strong will, she is nevertheless needing aid.
Snails is the comic relief. His role is to be incompetent and petulant. Being a coward is perfect for his character - it gives him motivation to be bad at what he does. :rolleyes: Yes, in the real world or the D&D world he would need to have at least some minimal competance - say stealthiness so he can hide. But this is the movie cliche world - he has to be pathetic at everything. Somehow we’re supposed to nevertheless be saddened by his death, because he’s Ridley’s friend and one of the good guys.
Ridley is, of course, the hero. The hero is slick, capable, dashing, handsome, charming, and of course has some deeply masked true potential that is unlocked through the process of the story. Thus his “destiny” to go alone to recover the Rod of Savrille. And the Elven wizard/healer’s comments.
The elf is the vulcan (complete with the ears ) - calm, rational, completely competent, unaffected by the likes of Snails.
Marina is the eye candy. (Oooh, la, la.) Her role is romantic interest for the hero (since the Princess, er Empress isn’t playing that role). It is her job to inspire the hero so he can have some reason to be pulled into the plot, and something to keep him on course when he doubts himself and the purpose. (He should have continued doubting.)
As for Star Wars counterparts:
Ridley is an amalgam of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo; he’s the hero and the dashing scoundrel
Marina is Princess Leia to Ridley’s Han Solo
Snails is C3PO
the dwarf is Chewbacca
the elf is R2D2; capable, along for the ride, contributes some small aid but is basically filler
Profion is the Emperor
Damadar is Vader
Plot cliches were just as structured. I won’t bother.
The movie is a generic fantasy story that has been decorated with a few D&D throw rugs to try to masquerade. Thus the use of red and gold dragons, the dwarf and elf and various other non-human types, and the beholder. It’s like the scriptwriters looked through a Monster Manual and picked out pretty pictures and ignored the descriptions. Thus the dragons and beholders are generic scary monsters instead of having any bearing on the content as D&D portrays them. Similarly, the spells are someone’s reading a list of spell names and then trying to dramatize how they might look, without bothering with the descriptions in the book. “Fireball” sounds impressive, but then the concept was adapted to story necessity. Whatever Marina’s missile spell was supposed to be. The binding spell - hey, a spectral rope. The “dimension door” - we need some way to have her escape the hoards of henchmen in the tower. It makes a convenient plot device for rapid moving from place to place. So what if it doesn’t follow the rules? Those aren’t movie rules.
Why didn’t the empress consult the gold dragons? Why did they act more like dumb monsters than the very powerful, spell-casting, talking creatures they are?
They weren’t D&D dragons, they were generic monsters.
Why didn’t the mages cast spells that fit their levels?
All the other mages were background filler. The only player character mages were Profion and Marina, and the Empress wielding the scepter.
Where were the spell components and why did a “magic dust” exist?
Magic dust was the generic magic component, saving the need for props. Movie device.
Why did the dwarf hit with the flat of his axe rather than the blade? He did. Watch and see.
Obviously because it would be too brutal for the good guys to be slashing and hacking the henchmen to bits all the time. (That’s why The Phantom Menace swapped from Stormtroopers to battle droids.)
What the hell was that ending? Where did they go?
Off to Ridley’s knighting, of course. (They’re knighting a theif. Does that mean he’ll give up his theifliness?)
Why did they do such a great job of avoiding English text, and at the end, had “Snails” scratched on a rock for all to see? Indecipherable runes would’ve been fine. We would’ve figured it out.
All of the runes and stuff were supposed to be magic text. Snails was just a name, so it was in commoner human language.
What was that three-eyed blue thing in that town?
I have no idea. A way to make a minor character stand out as non-human.
Why was that beholder so weak and apparently working for the humans?
See comments under dragons.
As for why Ridley hung out with Snails, I think that falls under the category of they were childhood friends and best buddies long before they figured out Ridley is a fabulous theif and Snails is a cowardly fool.
Dark Lord Davidson asked a series of questions:
Why did Snails name get scratched off the rock at the end?
Didn’t you get it? Snails was resurrected by the ruby and by Ridley’s secret magical ability. Thus he’s out there, and not in the ground. That’s why they were so happy.
How the hell did they end up WITH the red dragon eye, after he used it to gain access to the crypt?
Obviously he took it back when he left. Wouldn’t do to leave the door open, with all that treasure left.
What was Snails planning to do with the magic dust (which, by the way, seemed to be the universal spell component throughout the movie) he swiped from Damadar’s room?
He’s a thief. I imagine sell it, probably to Mirina.
Was the elf who healed Ridley a cleric, or a druid?
He wasn’t either, he was an Elf. (That was in the script. Not a D&D correct part.)
Mauve Dog commented:
No, that was a magic staff of defense. A superhigh level mage can cast that spell, then he doesn’t have to control it, the staff does the defending for him.
Tamax asked:
tracer said:
That part was fairly straightforward, to me. They lived in a classed society. Basically there was an aristocracy of the ruling class, the mages. These were the educated (duh), and they lived in style and splendor. Then there were the commoners, everyone else. It was a feudal society, so there really wasn’t anything like voting or such. Realize we mostly saw the commoners on their own turf, the only mage around was in hiding. I think that if the mages came around, the commoners would have had to bow and scrape and get out of the way and defer to them. All the standard feudal things. So the Empress was declaring them equals, and perhaps on her way to forming a “House of Commons” in the advisory council or something.
Actually, fireballs do half fire damage, half blast damage, so if a creature is totally immune to fire they take half damage from a fireball, 1/4 if they save.
