I know that we have several threads on both topics, but this is about how the two may (or may not) interact. I think we can all agree that the current trend is towards ending Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell and legalizing same sex marriage. I would say that at least one of these two things will happen within the next ten years. How will that affect the other?
This question was prompted by part of the Admiral Mike Mullen’s testimony about DADT. He basically said that it forces a violation of integrity. Basically some people have to lie about themselves to serve. This got me thinking about what would happen if same sex marriage is legal, but DADT is still in affect. When I was in the Navy, we were required to report if and when we got married, divorced, or had a child. Additionally, you have to enter your marital status on your enlistment papers. Lying on enlistment papers is a felony punishable by up to 10 years $10,000 (we heard this repeatedly during processing). So, if you have DADT works on the assumption that the service does not need to know your sexual orientation. If SSM is legal, then any service member wanting to get married to someone of the same sex has a choice of which policy to violate. Not mention that any married prospective recruit would have to commit a felony to enlist.
If DADT goes away first it seems less complicated, but still opens the door for how to treat state recognized unions and marriages that are not federally recognized.
How else will it play out? Which would help or hurt the other more?
So getting legally married to a person of the same sex is a violation of current DADT regulations even if you try to hide it or not tell anyone. The marriage itself is a violation.
The issue of someone in a legal gay marriage trying to enlist (though rare) is fascinating. Just think of the situation if we had a draft. People would be swarming to Massachusetts, and Phil Ochs would have to add another verse to Draft Dodger Rag.
I’m not sure there will be any impact, but this is an excellent illustration that you get all sorts of inconsistencies when moral issues are in transition. Just like when the military is integrated, people will find that serving with others will not kill them, and perhaps it will loosen up some people who tend to be more conservative than the nation as a whole.
Sigh… Moral issues are never in transition, and gay marriage is not a moral issue. It’s an ethical issue, and those can change. Just because a lot of folks incorrectly claim that gay marriage is a moral issue, doesn’t mean we have to follow their lead on that.
If the service ever found out they would have to be. No matter what it says, the effect of DADT is that if the service ever becomes official aware of your orientation, you are out.
I think we are a lot more likely to see DADT go (like, within the next two years) before same-sex marriage is recognized on the Federal level. The issue then becomes, will the military recognize state-performed SSMs and offer family housing and pay benefits, or will that recognition be prohibited by DOMA?
If the military is prohibited from recognizing the marriages, it creates all kind of injustice for soldiers who are married in the state’s eyes but not elible for the military benefits of marriage. You could also get soldiers married to each other shipped off to different posts.
It also leaves open questions of what happens to any that become parents. Are they treated the same as married parents or single parents? The military treats the two significantly different.
From what you stated you don’t violate DADT if asked marital status & date, or if you have children.
Even if you had to list your spouse’s name, technically that does not give away gender, as the song ‘A guy names Sue’ shows. And DADT block them from asking further about the gender of the spouse.
To the extent that I, as an atheist, think anything is a moral issue, SSM definitely is. It is immoral to keep a class of people from the pleasures and benefits of marriage based on condition of birth.
From the OP I get that yes, you have to notify them if you got married, but no, you don’t have to tell them the gender of your spouse, so not a violation of DADT.
Robbing a bank is still illegal even if you don’t get caught and never tell anyone.
Even attempting to marry someone of the same sex is a violation of DADT. You might not get caught, but you have violated the regulation.
Wait, how is that possible since the regulations were made before SSM was even a term, marriage between 2 homosexuals just didn’t exist (well ignoring the spiritual aspect of marriage). My understanding it is not the act of marriage, but homosexuality which is the problem with the Navy/military.
Does DADT bar marriage? My limited understanding is don’t talk about one’s homosxuality and you won’t be asked about it. Stating ‘I got married’ on this date does not reveal homosexuality.
One aspect about the DADT policy that I realized in this thread is it’s flaw. It causes a person to deny who they are, prevents that person from participating in some normal human conversation. It serves to isolate them. Bring in the issue of SSM and they are unable to invite their fellow sailors and CO’s, which is their family of sorts, this seems very cruel treatment for a person to endure.
No, it doesn’t bar marriage; it bars gay marriage. And gay sex. And gay acts of other kinds. And telling anyone that you’re gay. And asking anyone if they are gay.
So the lying thing is irrelevant. You’re violating policy just by being married…or even having gay sex. The hypothetical person in the OP isn’t in a dilemma since they aren’t allowed to join the military anyway while DADT is still in place, regardless of what SSM laws come to pass.
Thank you, it is homosexuality which is banned, it has nothing to do with if the homosexual is a member of a SSM or not, and there is no additional conflict by allowing/legalizing SSM.