We’ve had some “spirited” discussions here from time to time about rye whiskies.
For some time I’ve known the Bulleit and Templeton rye were ther same whiskies. Templeton goes for $10 a bottle more than Bulleit at my local package store. Fortunately, the owner of that store is well-versed, and filled me in not too long ago ago that Knob Creek Rye and George Dickel Rye were also from the Lawrenceberg distillery. So now, whichever of the four brands is priced lowest is my well rye for Manhattans.
I thought this list, referenced in the Beast article is fascinating! No doubt my fellow whiskey geeks on the Dope will find it equally so.
Fortunately it seems that Russell’s is still actually made by Wid Turkey in Kentucky. But I didn’t know it was now owned by Campari.
Here are all the whiskies that are coming out of the olf Seagram’s factory in Indiana:
4 Spirits Bourbon (4 Spirits)
1888 Bourbon (Diversa Brands)
99 Bottles Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Angel’s Envy Rye (Louisville Distilling Co.)
Backbone Bourbon (Crossroads Vitners/Strong Spirits)
Barrell Bourbon (selected bottlings) & Rye
Batch No. 12 Bourbon & Rye (Heritage Distilling)
Big Ass Bourbon (Strong Spirits)
Big Bottom Bourbon (Big Bottom)
Big House Bourbon (Underdog Spirits)
Big Y Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Bone Snapper Rye (Strong Spirits)
Breaker Bourbon (Ascendant Spirits)
Bulleit Rye (Diageo)
Chattanooga Whiskey 1816 Reserve (Chattanooga Whiskey Co.)
Clarion Blended Whiskey (Distilled Spirits Epicenter)
Cleveland Rye Whiskey (Cleveland Whiskey)
Coney Island Carlo Bourbon (Terresentia)
Copper City Straight Bourbon (Arizona Distilling Co.)
Corn Star Corn Whiskey (Bardstown Barrel Selections)
Cotton Hollow Rye (Cotton Hollow/Strong Spirits)
Cougar Bourbon & Rye (Foster’s)
Filibuster Bourbon & Rye (M.S. Trading LP)
George Dickel Rye (George Dickel)
George Remus Bourbon & Rye (Queen City Whiskey/Strong Spirits)
Henderson Rye (North Texas Distillers)
High Liquors Bourbon & Rye (High Liquors)
High West (an an element of many of their whiskeys blends)
Homestead Bourbon (Homestead American whiskey)
Hooker’s House (some of their bourbons and their rye; Prohibition Spirits)
J. Green Bourbon and Rye (Shadow Beverage Group)
James E. Pepper 1776 Rye (James E. Pepper/Strong Spirits)
Knotter Bourbon & Rye (Blaum Bros.)
LeMont Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Mosswood American Light Whiskey (Mosswood Distillers)
O.K.I. Bourbon (New Riff Distilling)
Prichard’s Rye (Prichard’s)
Redemption Bourbon & Rye (Bardstown Barrel Selections)
Riverboat Rye (Bardstown Barrel Selections)
Seagram’s 7 Blended Whiskey (Diageo)
Single Track Rye (Range and River Distilling)
Smokin’ Joe’s Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Smooth Ambler Old Scout Bourbon, Rye and Corn Whiskey (Smooth Ambler)
Smuggler’s Notch Rye
Spring Mill Bourbon (Heartland Distillers)
Taos Lightning (KGB Spirits)
Temperance Trader (Bull Run Distilling)
Templeton Rye (Templeton)
Temptation Bourbon (Bardstown Barrel Selections)
The Saloon Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Tin Cup Whiskey (Proximo Spirits)
WH Harrison Bourbon (Tipton Spirits)
Willett Rye (Indiana ryes)
Winghart’s Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)
Related anecdote: Several decades ago I tended bar and the bar manager put the same crap bottom-shelf whiskey in bottles of Johnny Walker Red and other name brands behind the bar. I was fascinated by the fact that nobody ever (to my knowledge) challenged this. In fact I’d ask in a faux-interested way, “can you really tell the difference?” And the answer was always “oh, yes.”
But they obviously couldn’t, because they’d say that as they were sipping the generic off-brand I’d just poured, believing it was the name brand they had requested.
Ultimately what MGP in Lawrenceburg does is let the craft distillers do their own thing with the aging. I get the impression that if there’s too much distinctiveness coming off the still in terms of a certain grain bill, it’s due to poor distilling. In other words, 45% wheat bourbons should all be much the same coming off the still, etc…
MGP offers a huge variety of distillatesto the craft distilling industry. I suspect that they’re either used by smaller outfits that don’t have the capital to both run a still AND age their final product, or they’re used for side-light products under a larger distillery’s name. (e.g. the Dickel Rye). If you notice, it’s either for rye from large outfits (Bulleit/Diageo & Dickel), or tiny outfits (North Texas Distillers comes to mind)
And this isn’t anything new; a common trick in the craft vodka distilling industry is to get ADM neutral spirits, redistill them/carbon filter them and cut them with whatever nifty water, and sell as boutique vodka. Again, fermenting your own mash and running a still is expensive, I gather.
And, in case anyone is going to get worked up that it is in Indiana… Lawrenceburg is just the other side of the river from Kentucky. Very close to the other distilleries on the bourbon trail.
Interesting. I don’t drink a single item on that list.
I’m not surprised at all about the mass production. Most of the difference comes from aging and blending after all. The difference between Jim Beam regular and Knob Creek is all in which barrels are blended, not the mash bill.
I didn’t mention it in the earlier post, but about a month ago, I actually had both the Bulleit Rye and the Dickel Rye in the cabinet simultaneously. Both come from the same 95% rye mashbill from MGP, but are quite different, due to the different aging and treatment by the two manufacturers.
IIRC, KBD’s (Kentucky Bourbon Distillers) products (Noah’s Mill, Rowan’s Creek, etc…) products are actually distilled by Heaven Hill.
Something similar happened to me about five years ago – at someone’s home, not a bar. (Well, it was a basement bar, I guess. ) The host poured me a Glenfiddich, neat, and after siupping it I realized it was NOT Glenfiddich. I was virtually certain it was a blend.
I didn’t call him on it at first, because I felt it would be rude, but after two or three inquiries from him about how I liked it, I said, “I’m pretty sure this isn’t Glenfiddich. My hobby is single-malt scotch.”
And he replied something like, “Yeah, I use the cheap stuff in the Glenfiddich bottle. Saves money and looks impressive.”
Yes, I’ve had Bulleit, Templeton, and Prichard’s Rye from that list, and they not only vary between brands, but between bottles of the same brand.
Yeast and specific grains do seem to differentiate whiskeys, but not near as much as aging technique seems to, and not even close to the affect yeast/grains/water give to beer.
Is this that big a deal? I’m not a big whiskey aficionado, but I still buy Eagle Rare and Buffalo Trace separately for different purposes even though they’re made in the same distillery - don’t most distilleries make multiple whiskeys/bourbons and sell them separately?
My husband likes High West Campfire - which is a scotch, bourbon, rye blend - the bottle simply says its bottled and distributed by High West - not that any of the liquor is actually DISTILLED by them.
Anyone who drinks wine knows that there is a difference between who bottles it and where the grapes comes from - especially with blends. And we haven’t had the loosing of temperance rules for long enough for anyone who wasn’t a big name player to have 15 year old bourbon lying around.
Yeah. The fact that different brands and lines come from the same distillery doesn’t mean it’s all the same stuff coming out of the same spigot with different labels. A certain distillery or brewery can make a variety of products using different recipes and storage/aging techniques.
I know more about beer brewing than liquor distilling, but I assume the same kind of contract brewing/distilling happens. Most breweries brew different brands and styles. Sam Adams had their beers brewed at numerous breweries around the country when they were growing, but that doesn’t mean a Sam Adams was the same as a Miller or Pabst (or whatever was brewed at the same location). Sam Adams would provide the recipe stipulating the required grains, hops, etc. This procedure allowed Sam Adams to create and market numerous products without building an expensive brewery large enough to brew all of their varieties.
That isn’t necessarily what is going on here, since the barrels were set aside to be aged a decade or more ago - before most of these brands were founded (and I’m guessing that when most of the people behind these brands were pre-MBA). However, it would be nearly impossible to do the long term investment of waiting 12 years to get a product to market - so many of these places are buying someone else’s whiskey, branding it, while they invest in creating their own. But that takes time, since it needs to be aged. The base whiskey they are using is apparently pretty good.
Yeah, I can see that marketing strategy. One base whiskey can create lots of different products. When I go into the liquor store, I see lots and lots of new brands/lines with funky names. A lot of the beer and alcohol game is marketing and branding, no doubt.
Having said that, a lot of what I see are new so-called moonshine products, with and without flavoring, that require little or no aging. That conveniently skips or greatly condenses the aging problem.
Pretty much anything that isn’t brown/amber in color isn’t aged, or is only aged for a minimal period- this includes vodka, gin, white rum, silver tequila, some grappa, most liqueurs, etc…
The thing is, the brown spirits are typically where the prestige is in distilling; producing a top-notch whiskey, aged rum, tequila or cognac is considered to require more skill and craftsmanship than a quality gin or white rum. So that’s a lot of why the craft distillers are going after that particular brass ring.
In terms of money, it’s in the unaged stuff, but they’re pretty much the province of the big boys; there’s a better niche in craft whiskey than in craft gin; people are used to buying $40 and up bottles of whiskey, but balk at a $25 bottle of gin or vodka.
Same thing goes for beer; clearly the money is in light American lagers, but craft brewers don’t brew them because they can’t really compete with AB-Inbev/MolsonCoors/etc… and because they’re not “cool”, despite being one of the most technically difficult beers to brew well and consistently. So they brew all sorts of strange stuff like Imperial Pale Lagers, and Black Double IPAs, and other sort of zymurgic non-sequiturs.
Which is the reason why Dickel makes Tennessee whiskey, but they don’t sell Tennessee rye. The title is misleading, of course; that doesn’t mean that the label is the only difference.
Also, if you buy rye whisky from Canada, it may not have much rye in it. It’s a style name up there.
The “moonshines” are everywhere as of late. And in the past 5 years, Templeton went from something that Iowa expats I know were ecstatic about if they found it out here, and now is in every decent liquor store. Starting a vineyard takes years, but many wineries can make wine before any vines are producing.
And FWIW, most of the “moonshines” out there are something very similar to vodka, with a hair more character. I’ve had the Jr. Johnson’s Carolina Moon, and can’t say that I was terribly impressed.