Dame Edna can lick my huevos

[Chaco]

Everyone is assuming that I knew who the fuck this person was before I read this. I have been talking to people and explaining to them who Dame Edna is and somehow they still don’t find it humorous. To respond to the countless people who said that I didn’t read the article I invite you to read the OP again. I knew that this was supposed to be satire yet I still didn’t find it funny. Now that I have read about this in detail I have lightened up. Everybody is busy assuming that I have no sense of humor and that I have a shotgun up my ass, or something. It is a joke. Fine. All hail Dame Edna. S/he is the great whoosher and I admire him/her for that. Whatever.

Maybe I should have read a Dame Edna book or rented some of her shows or something. From now on, I will do heavy research everytime someone says something offensive to me. That way I won’t come out as a pigheaded asshole. Will that help me grow up?

I accept that Dame Edna is not a racist. I also accept that I may have over reacted. My point is that this is obviously offending people. Not everyone is as enlightened as everyone on this board. Satire, in whatever form can hurt. Does anyone remember the blackface minstrels? I am sure that many people defended it and said that it was just satire and lighthearted humor. That hurt and offended people even though it was a joke.

My example may not be directly analagous but it points to the fact that what may be funny to some is not to others. I still believe that VF should have been a little more careful and I don’t think that I need to become a suscriber to say that.

[armedmonkey]

*Originally posted by yojimbo *
**I’ve been trying to get people to agree that Jonathan Swift was oneof the sickest fucks who ever walked on this planet and people laugh at me. **

Mr. Swift was definately not a “sick fuck”. Though snails may not be palatable to many uncultured Americans, only the most boorish would describe the French as “sick fucks” for advocating the consumption of escargo. Why then, must you denigrate the cultured taste of Mr. Swift regarding his suggestions for a civilized meal? I am truly suprised that you would be so ignorant to refined culinary tastes. I have sampled roasted children from many cultures, and it can not be denied that the Irish are the most tasty and succulent. I recommend they be served in a light garlic butter sauce, a pinch of rosemary, and accompanied by a fine Merlot.
[size=1]There’s a joke about “tater-tots” somewhere in here that’s just dying to be made - but I’m not going to do it[/size=1]

[Slacker]

*Originally posted by Chaco *
**From now on, I will do heavy research everytime someone says something offensive to me. That way I won’t come out as a pigheaded asshole. Will that help me grow up?

(and)

My point is that this is obviously offending people. Not everyone is as enlightened as everyone on this board. Satire, in whatever form can hurt.**

Doing “heavy research” on someone, and knowing the context of their words are two different things. I’ve heard of Dame Edna, but I’m by no means familiar with her work - but when I read that article though I understood it to be satirical and laughed. No research necessary.

You say satire can hurt. I say it’s supposed to.

[Daikona]

*Originally posted by Chaco *
**My point is that this is obviously offending people. **

It’s offending people who don’t have the mental capacity to recognize the nature of something that couldn’t be more satirical if it had a giant blinking neon sign that said “I am not serious”. If you’re going to be offended that easily, you deserve to be surrounded by things that offend you.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Chaco

Everyone is assuming that I knew who the fuck this person was before I read this.

Which was, of course, your first mistake, which would be passing judgement and denegrating something with no knowledge of it whatsoever.

I have been talking to people and explaining to them who Dame Edna is and somehow they still don’t find it humorous.

Some people will be offended no matter what. I wonder - do you find The Onion offensive? Thankfully, satire is alive and well.

Now that I have read about this in detail I have lightened up.

Hooray!

From now on, I will do heavy research everytime someone says something offensive to me. That way I won’t come out as a pigheaded asshole. Will that help me grow up?

Yes, it will. Hooray!

I accept that Dame Edna is not a racist.

Hooray!

I also accept that I may have over reacted.

Hooray!

Satire, in whatever form can hurt.

Then I daresay it’s not satire’s fault, as satire is intended to skewer established social conventions. To wit:

Main Entry: sat·ire
Pronunciation: 'sa-"tIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin satura, satira, perhaps from (lanx) satura dish of mixed ingredients, from feminine of satur well-fed; akin to Latin satis enough – more at SAD
Date: 1501
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
synonym see WIT

It is a shame that people are offended by this piece, but in this particular case I’m really feeling they’re bringing it on themselves. It is satire, and it is meant to be in favor of them by showing how ridiculous the position is, not somehow denigrate them by in any way stating the position is true. Heaven knows I’ve been offended before, sometimes even by things when the orginal author/speaker did not in any way intend it to be offensive, but I think in this particular case those who are taking offense are woefully ignorant of which they lamet against.

My example may not be directly analagous but it points to the fact that what may be funny to some is not to others.

Well thank goodness for freedom of expression! And even though I consider “PC” to mean “plain courtesy” in most cases, I will admit that my liberal brothers and sisters oft take it to an uncalled-for extreme.

Esprix

[CBEscapee]

*Originally posted by Estilicon *
**I

“Don Quixote” is the greatest novel of the greatest ibero-american writer Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra (1547-1616).
**

ibero-american?

[Chaco]

*Originally posted by Esprix *
**
I wonder - do you find The Onion offensive?
**

You bring up an interesting point. I have been a fan of The Onion for several years. Why is it that The Onion has never been quouted as being derogatory? They get pretty nasty and some of their pieces can be pretty offensive. Could it be because they are known as a satirical publication and Vanity Fair is not?

Let me explain how I heard about this and how it is being told to most people:

1. Vanity Fair said…(Wait a minute let me research this because from my understanding Vanity Fair is a fairly respectable publication and they wouldn’t let this slide)

2. Dame Edna said…(Who is Dame Edna)

3. He is satirist…(OK, I guess it’s suppossed to be funny, I mean come on nobody calls Latinos the help or leaf blowers:rolleyes:)

4. OK, he is trying to expose the ignorance.

A lot of people have not gotten past the first step and a few are at the second. I agree that if we got past all the steps, then maybe we wouldn’t be as pissed.

Also,

a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn

Ignorance and racism is a human vice or folly not the Spanish Language or the Help/Leaf Blower. This is where the joke gets lost.

[Esprix]

How is equating Latinos to “the help” not racism? I thought that’s what this was all about?

Esprix

[Esprix]

Look, a drag queen comedienne, whose schtick is being an old fuddy-duddy not with the times, writes a satirical puff piece in a social rag that has no bearing on the world as we know it. Then, when given incomplete and unresearched third-hand knowledge of it, the masses are outraged.

Why are you defending ignorance?

Esprix

[Bad_News_Baboon]

chaco,

see here is the mistake:

1. Vanity Fair said…(Wait a minute let me research this because from my understanding Vanity Fair is a fairly respectable publication and they wouldn’t let this slide

Vanity Fair does so publish satire all the time, in their Vanities section.

Another example of a regular feature is called Nan, a socialite who writes about the uber-rich in a satirical manner. The ENTIRE section of Vanities is pretty much a satire: Ins and Outs, whos who, that interviewer guy (he did Suzy this last time)…

I have a question:

Had Dame Edna said something similar about Chinese… would you have felt the same moral outrage? Would you have signed a petition then?

[Cervaise]

Hey Chaco, are you short?

'Cause short people got nobody to love.

[White_Lightning]

I particularly love this line from the article chaco cited above:

“Dame Edna could have chosen any number of amusing responses,” the letter says, “however, she responded using cheap, two-dimensional stereotypes of Latinos and Latin Americans, revealing not only her racism, but also her profound ignorance of who we are.” The letter noted the striking dissonance between Dame Edna’s response and the same issue’s cover story, a fawning profile of Mexican actress Salma Hayek, whom Vanity Fair’s headline writers celebrate for drawing “on her heritage to produce and star in ‘Frida,’ the hit biopic about Mexico’s iconic artist, Frida Kahlo.”
emphasis mine

The idiocy functions on so many levels. First, speaking of ‘profound ignorance’ of who somebody is, how about the speaker’s profound ignorance as to the identity of the author of the piece? It reads like they think Dame Edna is a real person, answering a real letter. She could have chosen a different response? She wrote the letter along with the response!

The author of the LA Times piece then goes on to highlight their complete and total non-understanding of the concept of satire by acting like the stance taken in the Dame Edna piece and the slant of the magazine’s cover story could somehow conflict.

Reading through the rest of the article, it only gets worse. Is it just me, or is there no attribution on that piece? It occurred to me to dash off a quick note to let the author know what an idiot they were, but it would seem to be impossible.

[No_Me_Ayudes_Compadre]

*Originally posted by Chaco *
**You bring up an interesting point. I have been a fan of The Onion for several years. Why is it that The Onion has never been quouted as being derogatory? **

Maybe because the political-interest reactionaries didn’t see this article, those poor, unskilled, lethargic, sleepy, easily tracked, bean-eating bastards.

[Cosmopolitan]

My brain hurts. Apparently, all it takes to offend some people is for certain words to show up in a routine or a piece of writing; context has no bearing on whether these folks take offense or not.

If you wanna be purposefully obtuse & not make any effort to distinguish between satire & slurs, have fun.

[Super_Gnat]

Hey Chaco, what do you think of this?

[No_Me_Ayudes_Compadre]

*Originally posted by Cosmopolitan *
**My brain hurts. Apparently, all it takes to offend some people is for certain words to show up in a routine or a piece of writing; context has no bearing on whether these folks take offense or not.
**

What a niggardly thing to say.

[KarlGrenze]

*Originally posted by CBEscapee *
**ibero-american? **

Spain and Spanish-speaking Americas… If he had said just Spanish, people could think he was only referring as the greatest author of Spain.

[Redboss]

I am a great admirer of Barry Humprries (the creator of Dame Edna) and I will watch anything on TV that has Dame Edna in it.

Notwithstanding, any australian of my age is well aware that Humphries is deeply conservative and frequently scathing and dismissive on subjects such as empowerment of minorities. I can live with that, and when it comes up in his humour I make allowances.

But I recognise that the regular and highly unfairSDMB pile-on is going on here. Chaco is being picked on, in a way that a poster with an established reputation would never be, and that smells too much of school-yard bullying for me.

My take on this?

Chaco: I feel offended by this piece.

SDMB regular: You just don’t get it, it’s meant to be funny.

Chaco: Yes but I feel offended by it.

SDMB regular: Well, you shouldn’t. The guy’s a genius!

Chaco: Well, I dunno, I still feel offended by it.

Another SDMB regular: You’re not! Can’t you get that right you blockhead! You are NOT offended

Chaco: Yes I am , I feel offended…

Yet another SDMB regular: But you’re feeling the WRONG feelings. For god’s sake listen to us, or better still, apologise, and get the right feelings!

Chaco: But I feel offended…

CHORUS OF SDMB Regulars: oh, grow up, get real, get a life, haven’t you something more important to talk about, etc…

If the joke is at the expense of a particular racial group, and someone from that racial group is offended, you may say “I don’t care about your being offended” or “Most people from your group don’t find that offensive (if that is a factual statement)”.

But to say “Oh well, your feelings don’t count” is to enter a collusion to insult, and I believe, to perpetuate racial slanders, by minimising their harmful effect. “Oh it’s just a joke, don’t take it seriously”

That “just a joke” line was used very effectively on women for the first seven decades of the last century, but it don’t wash now.

Dame Edna WAS offensive. She is not a saint, just someone in showbusiness. She can make mistakes, and I think she did, and she can be unfunny sometimes.

He was offended. Is that so hard to live with? I suppose it’s less fun to disagree privately, when you can all join the kicking contest.

Chaco has as much perception and intellignce as most other SDMB regulars who’ve posted here, and I trust his judgement.

I love these boards, but by god there’s times when they offer people a chance to display a very nasty side of themselves. Fewer kicking contests please, and more fighting of ignorance.

Grumpily,

Redboss

[Redboss]

Humphries. Okay, I was wrong

R

[Rhum_Runner]

Ignorance and racism is a human vice or folly not the Spanish Language or the Help/Leaf Blower. This is where the joke gets lost.

God, but you are a special kind of idiot. Chaco I suggest you stop reading VF until you have graduated from the third grade. Fourth grade humor is obviously lost on you.