Both neutered males. I talked to a veterinary technician (there’s a vet at my local, as in right across the street, PetSmart), and when I described the situation to her, she said it sounded like it was behavioral. I bought a really good pet-odor removing spray and soaked down the places where Conan has peed (which are not very many, seems to be centered around particular locations in the apartment, or around strange, new objects). I also bought some Feliway, which is hideously expensive but I hear it works very well.
I was gone all morning, and didn’t find any new places where anyone has peed when I got home, which is a good. I had used some deodorizing spray and we got rid of a couple of old throw rugs that seemed to have been peed on, so there won’t be that urine scent to tell them, “pee here”.
If getting rid of the smells and using the Feliway doesn’t do the job, then the next step will be taking Conan to the vet.
Oh, and another thing- Mom just got a new job a couple of weeks ago after being unemployed for several months. The cats seemed to have stopped peeing in the apartment for a while before that, but after she started working, the problem came back in spades.
They had gotten used to her being home all the time, except for short errands, now she’s gone from ten thirty in the morning until seven at night. I have semester break after this week, so I’ll be home most of the time for the next five weeks, and in a position to monitor the cats’ behavior.
I second the vote for behavioral. You mentioned in your OP the dousing of the “vinyl carry bag for my brand new massage table.” You’ve had two ingredients for territory-marking lately: outsider cats invading the home, and brand-new stuff that no one has staked a claim to yet showing up.
I’ve had territorial marking among my herd happen from time to time, and one thing I noticed was that stuff that the cat(s) frequnetly congregate on, like my bed, weren’t doused, while the (rarely used) beds in the guest bedroom got hit repeatedly. I keep towels over plastic over my couch cushions (tacky, but if you’ve ever had to replace a whole set of cushions…) and there was no marking on those favored sleeping spots – until I washed the towels. I put them back, all fresh and cat-scent-denuded, and they got pissed on in less than a day.
Yeah, but a useless post from handy or monty would be much better than any more yapping from your piehole.
It’s an actual serious problem/question, even if it’s in the pit. Kudos for your recommendation of ‘dogs.’ THEY don’t pee on stuff to mark their territory (and if they DO, you can beat it out of them within the first 3 seconds).
…and you also associate with people that abuse horses. Good for you.
Fucking dog lover. (from county: “Seriously though,”) -
Oh, hey, just kidding! Just like you!
I’ll just let you imagine the colossal ‘putz’ smiley here.
I believe that’s a misreading of county’s post. What he said was:
which I read as the trainer that county knows commenting on another person’s idiocy.
As to the “three seconds” thing, that was my comment. To expand upon that point, here is an excerpt from an article by a John Lyons Certified Trainer:
I’m not recommending beating the crap out of any animal. Especially not a cat – it would never forgive you for the insult to its dignity. You do have to channel necessary discipline into terms that the animal can understand – that is, in a form as close as possible to the means by which animals communicate within their own kind.
If you’re not familiar with the John Lyons training philosophy, it is based upon understanding the horse’s natural instincts, outlook, and behavior, and using that knowledge to make the right response to a human’s request easy, and the wrong response difficult, without abuse or cruelty. The goal is a harmonious relationship with the horse as a happy, willing partner.
Here is one possible solution if the pissing is behavioral. It’s not guaranteed to work, but it did for me with one among my eight cats who was stressed out by living in a multicat household and expressed it by pissing on stuff.
I had Serena checked by my vet to rule out any physical cause. When she came home I put her in a large cage – about three foot by four by four – with food, water, litter box, and bedding – and kept her there for two or three weeks. The cage was in my home office/computer room, so she had my company for much of each day. She also had occasional visits from certain of the other cats I let in the normally closed door. That was quite enlightening, BTW – she chirped with joy to some, and growled at Teddy (who thinks pouncing on housemates and pinning them to the floor is fun).
She also got time out of the cage with me – brief at first, since we were also working on issues of trust and fear (she’s a feral rescue). Things went so well that after a week or so she was at liberty whenever I was there and caged only when I wasn’t. In three weeks she was free in the room, with the cage disassembled and removed. After another week or so, Serena was granted parole to the full house. It’s been close to a month since then, and she’s reintegrated into the feline society without regressing to the stress pissing.
Which is a longwinded way of saying you may have to retrain your bad boy(s) to the litter box, and caging can be an effective way to do it, as a friend who works at a shelter confirms.
Thea the best ever stuff for getting out pee stain AND smell is plain old meat tenderizer. Seriously. Just use the non seasoned meat tenderizer and mix 1 cup of water to 2 tablespoons of the tenderizer. Douse your clothes (or area to be deodorized) liberaly and let sit for 1/2 an hour. Then wash (or rinse the area) your clothes. The meat tenderizer helps to break down the proteins in the urine.
It sounds like your cats are traumatized - somehow I doubt they’re enjoying the visits from neighborhood indigents. The poor things are miserable and trying to express themselves in the only way available to them.
I think your Mom should quit letting strangers in, make sure she’s keeping the litter box scrupulously clean, and if there’s a particular spot where the cats are peeing, set a bowl of food there as an alternate feeding spot. Cats don’t pee where they eat. And they HATE change, absolutely hate it. Stop changing their environment by introducing new cats all the time and start paying attention to the two you’ve got in a predictable way (i.e. playing with them while you do a daily task or being available to them in a consistent way); it may do the trick. “Punishing” them isn’t going to do a lick of good unless you catch them in the act.
Sorry about your damaged goods, it is a really frustrating problem, but your strategy needs some refining. Cats are more than territorial, they’re extremely emotional as well.
Another point, on the litter box: Is there only one, Thea Logica? Set out two, or even three if you can find places for them. I have seven boxes for my eight cats, at least one on every floor of my townhouse condo. Some cats simply won’t go where another one has. Some cats will share unless they’re upset about something. If, as fessie suggests, your cats are being traumatized by the outsiders coming into their territory, taking their food, and getting their humans’ attention, that could do it.
I wouldn’t call it ‘misquoting,’ you said 'if you don’t show displeasure at the time of the incident they don’t know what the hell you are doing - ’ and ETF offered the 3 seconds rule in the next post. It seemed to offer a charitable skew to your 'whoop ‘em in the act’ advice.
Are you disputing my assertion that dogs pee to claim territory, too, or are you just hoping for a pile-on? 'Cause that was the gist of MY post. Yours, apparently, is to get bitten.
Bite yourself, monkeyboy. I’m biting more interesting and intelligent folks tonight. Some of them don’t post all kinds of stupid replies on the SDMB and come back with scathing replies from Bart Simpson’s (dated) phrasebook.
Where did county advocate “whooping”? He said “show displeasure”, which could be as mild as saying “No!”
You also continue, stockton, to misinterpret or deliberately misconstrue the point county made about the abusive horse training:
Once again, I must point out that an unbiased reading of what county said, however poorly phrased, is that his trainer acquaintance was citing a different guy’s stupid abuse as counterproductive. It wasn’t county’s “friend” who’s doing the abusing, so trying to tar county with the abuse brush by association is a crock.
I gather from Ilsa_Lund’s Pitting of county that he’s unpopular and held in contempt around here. I haven’t read what he’s said in GD, so can’t agree or disagree on whether he’s generally a knuckle-dragging turd-brain with abhorrent views. I think it only fair to state my belief that his initial post in this thread was polite and offered sensible advice, such as pointing out that the OP’s continued punishment of the presumed pisser was counterproductive:
If anything, county appears to me to be recommending restraint rather than abuse.
You don’t like county? You think he’s a moron, and ignorant, and worthy of attack? Fine, go to it. But do it honestly, without twisting what he said in this particular thread. Fair’s fair.
FYI, striking an animal as small as a cat is generally a no-no. I find a good water bottle spray with a nice stream does the trick far better than physical violence.
If you really want to get their attention, mix in a little vinegar (not a lot).
With dogs I have had some good results using a can with a few rocks or coins in it - just shake the can close to the animal and is scares them/perceived as a threat.
Mom spotted Conan squatting to pee yesterday in a spot where there had once been a large floor lamp which had fallen over and broken into little pieces-parts. I charged at him, yelling “NO!”, and he hightailed it to the litterbox on the balcony.
EFT, there is only one litterbox, and it’s on the balcony (covered to keep rain out). We got Schrodinger when Conan was about six months old, so they’ve been sharing litterbox and living quarters since they were both teenagers. Both kitties are a bit over two years old (about two months apart in age), and are best buddies. Conan actually seems to regard Schrodinger as a big toy. Schrodinger, BTW, is about an inch and a half taller than Conan at the shoulder, is about three inches longer in body length, and outweighs Conan by four and a half pounds. Conan weighs about ten pound, Schrodinger is about fourteen and a half. Neither cat is overweight, although Schrodinger does tend to be a bit on the pudgy side, which I think is genetic. Mama and sibs also had similar builds.
Actually, I think Schrodinger may actually be a Labrador retriever.
Another point- Conan seems to be the main culprit in the pissing contest, but he also seems generally more friendly to the other cats (which have not been in in the last few days). It’s almost as though he’s trying to say, “Yes, you can come visit my territory, just don’t forget that it’s my territory.” One time a strange cat (beautiful Siamese) had climbed up onto the balcony and gotten in through the pet door, and Conan just kind of sat back and watched as Schrodinger ran him out. Schro is generally a very laid-back kitty, and I had no idea that he could hiss and growl like that. He was so wound up that he turned on Conan next. Conan just laid down on the floor about three feet away and waited for Schro to calm down again. Took about a half hour.
Schrodinger isn’t really very bright, which is one of the reasons I think he’s a Labrador Retriever.
And we don’t have a parade of strange cats coming in the apartment. Just a couple of selected kitties that Mom and I have become friendly with. But there hasn’t been any hissing or growling, more surviellance than anything. We have also taken in strays from time to time, seen to their veterinary care and kept them until homes could be found for them, and there was never a problem with the Original Two peeing in the apartment then. On kitty had belonged to the next-door neighbor, who had shut him out of the apartment when they found out the complex was going to start charging pet rent (increasingly common here in Vegas). He climbed the balcony and came in through the pet door, and was just accepted as a meber of the household, and we had another stray staying with us at the time. When we had the three, Schrodinger became depressed, but some extra cuddles brought him out of it pretty fast. Kitty number four developed a hero-worship kind of attachment to Conan, and would follow him around making these cute trilling noises…