This will be a simple question for grammarians.
I’m second guessing myself on a minor point on a report I’m writing.
If I’m writing about the clients of an accounting firm, such that it’s along the lines of The accounting firms’ clients …blah blah
Am I correct with the apostrophe placement in firms ?
Only one firm? Apostrophe before the s.
One firm: ‘s
More than one: s’
And secondguessing is one word.
No, it’s a hyphenated word.
Look more closely at your link. Even though the bold title is “secondguess” it is written “second-guess” everywhere else on that page. I realize it may be confusing because the dash looks like it could be separating syllables, but they use a raised dot to separate the syllables. In any case, the example they give in the second definition clearly uses a hyphen: "We must try to second-guess what he’ll do next. "
Yep, you’re right, Amy. :smack:
Firm is a collective noun, like herd or flock, but even though it represents a number of people, cows or sheep, it is still singular. A firm *is *thriving, not *are *thriving for example. So the apostrophe is used in the singular form - ie before the ‘s’
That’s where I was getting confused I think.
Thanks all
The simplest way to think of it is that the apostrophe only goes after the s if the s would be there anyway.
You’re talking about “an accounting firm”, not “an accounting firms”, so the s is only there because of the possessive.
If you were talking about the clients of “the top 10 accounting firms” then there is already an s there, so you would just need the apostrophe.
I would write “clients of the accounting firm”. 
Thank you everyone for the input.
Its funny, I consider myself a fairly good writer (from a technical report writing perspective anyway), but I find I need to stop and think for a moment about the possessive apostrophe almost every time. It’s the one rule of English that has never become just automatic to me.
That actually has nothing to do with where to place the apostrophe. The apostrophe only goes after the S for possessive plurals that end in S: the workers’ union, the baseball players’ locker room. For possessive plurals that don’t end in S, the apostrophe goes before it: the men’s room, the mice’s cheese, the oxen’s yoke.
Which is not to say, of course, that “firm” is plural. You’re right that it isn’t. That’s just immaterial.
Right, of course. But a caveat: in British English, collective nouns that would be singular in the U.S. are sometimes treated as plural, depending on the context. For example, “Apple are releasing a new collection of Beatles BBC tracks.”
not really, because that is Jesus’ fault, and not Loopus’s.
an easy way to remember is to always use " 's " unless it results in " s’s ". that is, i never use " s’s " and there is no need to factor in singular and plural nouns. this is more a matter of style but imho, " s’s " implies another syllable, is ugly and figuring out the rules for using it is just unnecessarily complicated.
I agree that it’s a matter of style, but whether you use s’ or s’s, there *should *be another syllable. “Let’s go to Elvis’ house” should not be pronounced the same as “Let’s go to Elvis house.”
This is a matter of style: either is correct. Consistency is what’s important there.
I think that Strunk & White’s Elements of Style is garbage, personally, but here is what they have to say on the subejct. Note that they agree with me that “apostrophe-S” should be used even for singular possessives that end in S (eg their example “Charles’s friend”), but, for reasons unknown to me, make exceptions for “ancient proper names in -es and -is, the possessive Jesus’, and such forms as for conscience’ sake, for righteousness’ sake,” making your “Jesus’ fault” correct according to them.
In blatant disregard for Strunk & White, I use “apostrophe-S” for all singular possessives without exception.
I’m also in the apostrophe-s crowd for all singular possessives. The Associated Press Stylebook has an even more convoluted set of rules. Singular proper names ending in “s” only get an apostrophe. Singular common nouns ending in “s” get an apostrophe-s, unless the next word begins with “s”. In that case, it just gets an apostrophe. So, “waitress’s uniform” but “stewardess’ seat.”
I do apostrophe-s in all those cases, even though professionally I’ve most often written to follow AP Style (in which case, I follow AP Style rules.)
[quote=“Loopus, post:12, topic:681608”]
That actually has nothing to do with where to place the apostrophe. The apostrophe only goes after the S for possessive plurals that end in S: the workers’ union, the baseball players’ locker room. For possessive plurals that don’t end in S, the apostrophe goes before it: the men’s room, the mice’s cheese, the oxen’s yoke.
[quote]
Right.
Unless it is, as is typical of Brit usage, which frankly makes more sense to me: “the firm” to them means the people in the firm, whereas to us in the US it means the entity comprising the people in the firm. The worst part about the US usage is that we use the pronoun “they” rather than “it”, implying either that “it” is plural, or “it” has a sex that we don’t want to specify. A tad messy in either case, but one that only a pedant like me would be bothered by.
That’s a matter of style, and I don’t use that style. But it does make for an easy rule, if the rule indeed holds up and I suspect it does.
I confess I found that inexplicable too. But I guess the unstated contention is that it was too popular in print to render illegal. Back in what, 1920?
That’s strange. I’ve always been taught to go by pronunciation. If you say two S’s, it has two S’s. But I can’t imagine someone saying “waitresses uniform” but not also say “stewardesses seat.”
I have, on the other hand, heard ancient names said without the extra S. Everyone I know, for example, says “Jesus name” not “Jesuses name.”
See, that’s weird to me. It’s “Jesuses name” to me, not “Jesus name.” I’ve never heard the possessive form said without the extra syllable.