Damn atheists during Christmas time

The BBQ Pit
21

I think it’s more that everyone is so easily offended.
At work, for example, I’m afraid to even say, “Have a nice holiday”, to people, for fear they might get upset and scream about it. And then other people get offended because I DON’T say it. I don’t mind it when people say it to me, I merely say, “Thank you, you too!”

It’s like, you’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t.

I think Crunchy’s just saying, “Hey, I’m in a good mood, I’m having a great time with this holiday, and I want everyone else to have a good time.” A simple thank you will suffice, will it not?

(I may be an overworked, grouchy retail clerk-but if I were to say, “Yeah yeah, whatever.” to people wishing me a nice whatever, I would probably be written up. The correct response should simply be, “Thanks, you too!”)

However, it depends. If it is AROUND the holiday times, and someone says it, it’s rude. IF, however, a store is OPEN on Xmas, and someone comes in and says Merry Xmas, THEN I’m pissed. (or, gee, it’s a shame you have to work today!
my response: gee, then why the fuck are you HERE? If you weren’t here, I wouldn’t HAVE to work today!)

22

I mean, if it’s around the holiday time and someone says merry whatever, and I say, yeah yeah, bite me-THAT is rude.

It’s not rude for someone to say merry xmas.

I had a guy come in on Easter sunday when I had to work (despite telling them I COULDN’T), and some guy said to me, “HAPPY EASTER!” I just glared, because I was so pissed about working when I said I wouldn’t. And when this guy told me, “Gee, it’s a shame you guys have to work today, you shouldn’t be open,” I simply responded with, “Well, we wouldn’t be open if people didn’t come in to shop.” He just nodded and said, “So true.” (Didn’t even get my point…)

So, I guess the ultimate in poor manners is going into a store on a special day, and telling the clerks it’s a shame they have to work, bitching because another store isn’t open, (some guy complained about the chocolate store having the AUDACITY to be closed on New Years Day-because Kmart was open), or telling people that the store shouldn’t be open.
If that’s the case-THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU HERE???

And don’t bitch about it being busy, and complain because my line is closed and say you’re in a hurry to get home and be with your family. Like I don’t have the same right to be with MINE?

23

Crunchy, a lot of folks have given you good insight here & at one point you almost got the message

message: please do not wish anyone who you don’t personally know to be a christian, a “merry christian holiday”.

Saying Merry Christmas to folks who may not be christian is being rude to them, no matter how well meaning you are. It is not polite to wish “Happy my religious day” to anyone - this is my belief, my set of moral standards, etc.

Sometimes the best way to judge being polite or well meaning is not to measure it by how it makes you feel (happy and warm inside, wishing the person all the joys that knowing and loving christ can bring) but rather considering what message the other person would like to receive (“I hope this season/holiday brings you and yours as much joy as it is bringing me”). Now, what words would convey the second message? I like Happy Holidays.

24

Hmm… well, apparently Crunchy’s sentiments are not popular at all. But I agree with them, in all of his different posts.

You all are really going after him – and he is turning the other cheek beautifully. But I believe at this point, likely all his cheeks are bruised. :wink:

Merry Christmas, Crunchy. I love the burnt pork comments.

25

From the bottom of my heart, Crunchy, I hope you have a Merry Monday. What you choose to do or celebrate on that day is your own business; don’t make it mine.

If you want to wish me, a non-Christian, to have a “Merry Christmas” I’ll say “Thanks! I’ll sleep in, enjoy a movie in the afternoon, and Chinese food for dinner.”

It’s no one’s obligation to make your “holiday season” merry except your own.

26

wow, missed ab unch of stuff while replying to Matt.

pldennison - I’ve already admitted I should’ve said “Happy Holidays” and will try do so from now on. It’s just that “Merry Christmas” is more of a trained response for me. My point is that I meant well and was snapped at for it. I realize you can’t tell a person’s religion by looking at them. As I said before, if someone says “Happy Hanukah” to me, I will say it in return, knowing that they are only being nice and wishing me well. I would not snap back with, “I’m a Christian and don’t practice Hanukah.” I bleieve in accepting the spirit of the message if not the message itself. If someone wishes me well, I wish well in return, not say something to the effect that their message of good will wasn’t appreciated.
And be thankful for the holiday flavored sitcoms and dramas? You were kidding about that right? All they are are rehashes of It’s a Wonderful Life or a Christmas Carol. A bunch of glurge spewed out to advertise as “a very special holiday episode” I’d like to see that crap off the air too, you know.

dublos - I singled out the guy with the sign cuz that’s the first thing I saw this morning going to work after a hell of a night last night (not just the four people I ran into, but the traffic, the crowds, all the BS you have to put up with when you wait till the last damn second to do your shopping). It was a target for me to vent my frustrations about the lack of tolerance. No, it wasn’t the worst thing he could have done and yes he has the right to say it (which I have maintained throughout this thread) It just struck me as disrespectful.

And dublos, thanks for putting the word “Hanukah” in your post, I knew there was something wrong with my spelling. And a Merry Monday to you, too.

Gaudere - I know it’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s the best I could think of. I also know Christians have caused many wars in the name of spreading the Word, but that’s not my fault. I refuse to apologize for that as much as I refuse to apologize for slavery just because I’m white, but that’s another can of worms. And yes, it would be equally rude for a Christian to put up a sign during Hanukkah (how many spellings does this word have?!). That’s the point I’m trying to make - tolerance. I’ve been saying again and again I wish people could be more tolerant and all I’ve been getting are people telling me how Christmas is shoved down their throats (I’ve already said the holiday is too commercialized and needs to be reined in), and picking my analogy apart. Let’s change that analogy a little then. Instead of shouting in the crowd, as the veterans drive to the cemetary where they have to pass a house who put a sign in their lawn saying “Soldiers are murderers”. Still worse than what my neighbor did, but what the hell, I’m just trying to make a point. Yes, the shit’s gonna be different, but you at least see the point I’m trying to make?

As for the four people I ran into last night, the lady works behind the counter at a mall shop at Christmas, what the hell does she expect? As an employee she should at least be courteous. The guy I held the door open for, a simple “Thank you” would have been appropriate. The drop dead look, if you don’t like it, don’t respond, but don’t give me a look like you want to beat my ass when I’m just trying to be nice. As for the Jewish lady, well, ok, maybe not that bad, but don’t speak to me in that tone of voice like I’m supposed to know you’re Jewish by looking at you.

It’s seems people think I’m jumping on the atheists, and that’s my fault for the title of the thread and that the OP was set off by seeing that sign this morning. So here’s some points:

  1. I have a 15 year old dog, I love her very much. I often refer to her as “The damn old mutt” I don’t mean anything by it. Saying “damn atheists” was meant in the same vein as saying “the damn dog” I don’t hate them, but it can be an annoyance.
  2. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and speak their minds. I believe I’ve said this from the beginning. Why are we having people tell me that this guy has the right to do this when I never said he didn’t? I didn’t call the apartment management to ask them to take it down or leave a note on the guy’s door or anything. I just expressed a wish that people could be a little more respectful of others beliefs. The guy with the sign singled out Monday, not Hannukah, just Christmas. At 7:30am on a Saturday when 5 degrees outside and I’m scraping ice off my car, that grated my nerves and I felt like venting. Apparently I’m wrong for wanting to vent, get it out of my system and wish for tolerance.
  3. The point of the thread, which I guess I didn’t make to clearly, is for tolerance. I try to be tolerant, and as has been accurately pointed out by several posters, saying “Merry Christmas” to people I don’t know is making an assumption that they think the way I do. I’ve admitted I was wrong in that regard and will try to simply say “Happy Holidays” from now on. I’m only human people, I fuck up too and not too proud to admit when I’m wrong. However this goes back to tolerance. If someone makes a PC slip like that, let it go.

Look, I know my thoughts are not the only way to think or the best way to think, but neither are yours. If we start there, maybe we could gain an understanding and a TOLERANCE and a RESPECT for one another’s beliefs and ideas. This is what I’ve asked for since the OP, but I’ve gotten people griping about how little respect I’m showing for their beliefs.

Maybe I have shown some unintentional disrepect, if so I’m sorry. I try to be tolerant, I try to learn your point of view and see things from your angle. I’ve already accepted the idea of saying “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” I’m sure there’s more I can do. But this needs to work both ways people. You need to try to see where I’m coming from before griping at me for getting mad at this this morning. Is it really so painful to say Merry Christmas in return to someone if they slip and aren’t PC about the holiday season? I can’t do anything about the commercialization of Christmas and having it shoved down your throats, but getting bitter about it and blaming all Christians for it is not the answer.

27

No good deed goes unpunished.

This is an interesting thread. Nice that, for the most part, it’s an actual debate despite its location. There are things on both sides of the issue I agree and disagree with, but I thought I’d just point this one part out.

When someone comes up to you, and wishes you a Merry Christmas, you can’t reach inside their mind and locate what it is that made them say it. Maybe they’re doing it out of habit. Maybe they wish to force their beliefs on you. Maybe they think you look Christian and it’s their way of saying hi. You don’t know. You can’t unless you ask them and even then you still might not find out.

The only thing you can control is how you respond. There are two options: 1) how dare he/she think I’m Christian. That fundie bastard can’t witness to me and get away with it. 2) No, I’m not Christian, but the intent was for a total stranger to wish me well with goodness in his or her heart.

Choice is yours.

28

Maybe I missed it in someone else’s post; I certainly never intended to convey this message, and I’m sorry you are getting this message

What I read into these posts were a lot of people who like to converse with you (and speaking for myself, people who like to read your posts) who want to help you understand a spoken misunderstanding. That’s all.

Happy Holidays to you and all the people that you care about.

Lost

29

If it matters, Crunchy, I agree with you.

Although I’ve come to realize in my similar Great Debates thread that many strongly disagree with the public expression of the Christian element of Christmas. And, as I pointed out in my OP there, it seems that an attack is beginning on even the most secular expressions of Christmas on a community level.

I’m sure your heart was in the right place with your “Merry Christmas” comments, but it’s probably not the best way to address an individual if you’re not sure where their beliefs stand. However, anyone who went beyond politely correcting your expression of a friendly and cordial sentiment, anyone who got rude or militant about it, is just an asshole.

I wouldn’t have a problem with athiests or any other non-Christian being openly festive about whatever they might be openly festive about. In fact, being able so see such expressions is a culture-building experience for communties, or at least would tend to increase awareness and tolerance in the case of the majority’s views of athiests and Pagans.

Apparently, it doesn’t work that way in reverse, however.

Peace on Earth, everybody.

(No offense intended to any terrorists out there.)

30

That’s not what I meant at all. Anyone can find Christmas annoying. I find all the tripe and glurge spewed by the media at the time of year annoying.
On re-reading my post, though, I do see how bad that statement is. Here was my line of thought: These other religions aren’t Christian, so I can see how they can get upset by having the Christian holiday shoved down their throats. Atheists aren’t religious (and this is were the mind-block set in, I admit), so why should they care and just flaunt that they believe there is no God? I see the error in that line of thought now. I see how totally annoying this must all be. If you’re agnostic and celebrate Christmas because you believe in the principles of good will and love for all humans, fine, then celebrate the holiday. But if you don’t celebrate, what’s the point in putting up signs just to tell people you don’t believe in their holiday? Isn’t that basically just a smack in the face on a day that is incredibly important to someone? You can put up a sign saying you’re an atheist any damn day you’d like, why choose the weekend before Christmas? It’s disrespectful.

I used to work in the check-out lines at Target while in high school. I know exactly what the holiday season is like. I also know, as an employee of the store, you are supposed to be respectful, curteous, and smile at all time. If the customer says, “Ring this up fast, you ittle shit, I’m in a fucking hurry,” you are expected to smile, say yes sir and wish them a good day as they leave.

Oh, I’m sorry, maybe you’d like a play-by-play of my life these past couple weeks? I was saving bandwidth by only giving the highlights. But basically, yes, that’s what I’m doing. Where have I been disrepectful or intolerant of anyone in this thread? I’ve accepted other people’s points of views and admitted where I have made mistakes. I never claimed this guy didn’t have the right to do what he did, just that I wish he hadn’t done it this weekend. Tolerance does not mean acceptance or agreement, but putting up with something. I’ve made no suggestions that he take the sign down, it’s something I have to deal with, but yes, it make me angry. What do I do with that anger? Swallow it, and always swallow my anger because if I get mad at someone they may not like it? That’s not very healthy. Maybe I should focus the anger outward and tear down the sign, throwing away my beliefs in tolerance and the freedom of expression, one of the things I served in the military for 4 years to protect. That’s hypocritical. So I vent the anger out. I spew forth my point of view, have my say, and then my beliefs are out there, his beliefs are out there, and no one’s rights have been infringed.

31

I thought the sign said Merry Monday, not fuck you christians.

No, it’s an attempt to participate in the joy of the season.

See above attempt to participate and share some goodwill.

It most certainly is not. This reads to me like you are saying that unless everyone hangs out a christian type decoration, then they’re being disrespectful to you and all christians. That is not tolerance. And this is the perfect time of year for everyone on earth to celebrate anything they want.

32

Heh up until I read this thread for some reason I thought christmas was on sunday. I think the point about christmas is its a tradition that vaguely alludes to religious stuff. I don’t really celebrate christmas but I would still wish a merry christmas as it is simply wishing someone well. Wishing someone a merry monday is not wishing someone well(probably) its pointing out that not everyone celebrates christmas. Neither are offensive unless someone tries to be offensive with them. Or the person recieving them is overly touchy.

33

Trying to keep up and I missed you Montfort. Have fun on your day off. Sleep till noon (or later) and have an egg roll for me.

Interesting that you menioned Chinese food, since when my mom asked what we wanted for Christmas dinner, I asked for Chinese. I’d much rather have some hot-braised chicken than smoked ham.

And Lost - earlier I said

Your post is exactly what I was referring to. I try to be open-minded, but I’m also human and sometimes my beliefs close my mind to some options. But Lost posts:

This is what I meant when I said we start with the acknowlegment that no one has the best ideas and we should try to see each others ideas and beliefs. After previous experiences this week, when I saw the sign, my first though was, “There’s another one!” Feeding off the negative reactions I’d been getting, my response to the sign was also negative. To be honest, this line of thought hadn’t occurred to me till Lost posted it, and now I feel like a bit of an ass.

Thank you Lost for providing another point of view on his possible motives instead of bitching at me about how he has the right to hang it and how Christianity is shoved down his throat - two points I’ve agreed with since the OP.

34

Well, can I ask this?
If a Jewish person wished me a Happy Hanukah, is it okay for me to say, “Dammit, I’m christian!”
Or if Matt wished me a Blessed Solstice, should I say, “I’m Christian, I don’t believe in that Pagan crap!”
If they are justified saying “Don’t tell me to have a Merry Christmas,” then, therefore, I am justified in saying, “Screw your stupid holiday too,” or whatever?
Or should I say, Thank you, I hope you do the same!

When I worked on Christmas Eve, I said, “You have a nice Christmas!” to everyone.
Why should anyone have to hide their beliefs? You don’t have to flaunt them and shove them down people’s throats, but can’t we just say, “Hey, Merry Christmas!” and not get my throat jumped down?
And by the way, I believe Christmas is a NATIONAL Holiday for the US, is it not? Can’t Merry Christmas mean, “Have a nice time on the day that happens to be Christmas?”
Gosh, my aunt went into Kmart one day and flipped out on the manager because she wanted to Xmas shop, and they weren’t playing XMAS MUSIC (this was last week), and couldn’t do anything about it, as it’s piped in. Had I been there, I would’ve killed her. I mean, come on, to me, Christmas is about family, and good times, sharing with friends and loved ones, peace on earth, good will to men, and recognizing that we are all human. So, when I say, “merry christmas,” I mean I hope you are having a good time this year.

See, so now I am afraid at work to say, “Have a nice holiday,” because I’m afraid people will get offended about that. Here in Pittsburgh, they started referring to this time of year as The Sparkle Season, which is totally stupid.
Why not just the Holiday Season?
And dammit, I LIKE CHRISTMAS. We always have fun with my cousins and aunts and uncles, with lots of yummy food and presents. THAT is what being a Christian means to me-expressing good will to everyone else.

I say it: if you want people to respect YOUR beliefs, you have to respect the beliefs of others. If you want me to respect your atheism (which I do), respect the fact that I am a Christian. It’s a two way street.
MERRY Christmas, Crunchy.

And Blessed Solstice, Matt. Your holiday sounds just like what I do with my cousins. (Eat turkey, play new video games, watch an eclipse-is there gonna be one? Cool.)

And Happy New Year. There. That can be wished to everyone.

Eat lots of Christmas candy. It’s all good. (Especially the divinity fudge my cousin made…mmmmm…)

35

Aw, Guinny, thanks for backing me up, but I doubt you’ll be taken seriously since you posted in IMHO that you want to boink me. :wink:

I know that’s not relevant to anything you said, but it’s not often I can say someone wants to boink me and have proof to back it up. Plus it’s a fun word to say.

Boink boink boink boink boink

Sorry, I’m getting carried away. I’ll stop now.

36

Boink…yeah, it is kinda fun… Yeah yeah yeagh…

Hehehe…
No, I see this kind of crap all the time-You must tolerate MY views…but your’s suck, so I don’t have to do the same.

37

I was raised to think that anyone who snapped “I’m Jewish” to “Merry Christmas” was being incredibly rude. I can understand her shortness, because having someone else’s religion in your face for over a month does tend to get a little old.

However, I’ve found that a simple “thank you” to whatever holiday greeting I get tends to keep things nice and civil. Doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings, and it’s being polite enough to acknowledge a sentiment, no matter what that sentiment is.

Robin

38

Crunchy, I thank you for your message. It pains me to admit this, but I am scared shitless of posting & don’t do it often. I am not sure why I jumped in here except I hoped you’d re-interpret the message on that banner.

You have my sincere wishes for a very Merry Christmas and I hope the new year brings you many wonderful opportunities.

Lost

39

<spelling nerd>
Hey Crunchy, just so you know on the spelling thing, here’s the dictionary.com listing for “Chanukah”:

*Ha·nuk·kah or Ha·nu·kah also Cha·nu·kah (än-k, hä-).
n. Judaism

An eight-day festival beginning on the 25th day of Kislev, commemorating the victory in 165 B.C. of the Maccabees over Antiochus Epiphanes (c. 215-164 B.C.) and the rededication of the Temple at Jerusalem. Also called Feast of Dedication, Feast of Lights.

[Hebrew nukkâ, dedication, from nak, to dedicate.] *
</spelling nerd>

Ok, now for my two cents on the rest of the subject at hand:

Honestly, why not? I would return your well wishings. Essentially that is what I would be communicating to you with a “Happy Holidays” or a “Merry Christmas” comment. I am expressing my pleasant greetings to you in the hopes that I may bring you some small measure of good feeling in our brief exchange of social pleasantries. Nothing more. If you say “And a Blessed Solstice to you” I will not be offended, I will be pleased that you can share well wishes with me as well, no matter your beliefs. I would rather that then a baleful glare or a rude comment or whatnot.

I concur. In simple terms of politeness and etiquette, responding rudely to a greeting like this is tantamount to replying to a “Good Day” with a “Fuck you.”

Hey Crunchy, I mostly agree with you. Mayhaps you took too much offense to the “Merry Monday” sign, but I will agree with you on all other counts.

So everyone, when I say “Merry Christmas”, know that I am only wishing my goodwill upon you, and have no agenda for converting you to Christianity or any other thing, but only my well wishes hidden within those two words.

Merry Christmas to all, happy Chinese food eating, happy sleeping in, Good eclipse gazing, Happy Chanukah, Blessed Solstice, Merry Monday, etc, etc, to all!

40

You appear to be attaching rather a lot of significance to “this time of year”. Although a Christian could reasonably claim that this particular festival “belongs” to them, it is a modern phenomena. To those who keep telling me “Jesus is the reason for the Seacson”, and/or “it’s Christ’s Birthday”, you are incorrect - Christmas was created by Pope Gregory in the 8th century to replace Yule.
I guess my point is, make of it what you will.