I tried to like you, really I did. I wanted to like you. I like command line distributions, I like the idea of choosing all the software to be installed rather than getting everything in a uniform package. I’d just like one or two things to work occasionally.
I’d heard good things about the package manager, pacman, being fast and generally superior to dpkg. It is fast. Primarily because it doesn’t actually install the proper dependencies. Installing the xorg metapackage I found that it doesn’t install the xorg-xinit package, which contains startx. I’d call that a dependency. Installing wicd the network manager, it refused to start because some python packages were missing, packages listed as “optional” dependencies, although absolutely required if you actually want to use it. The only advice the ArchWiki had on the subject was to uninstall wicd and purge the various config files then start again. Something I generally associate with Windows 98, and which I’ve never previously had to do on Linux.
At least it got installed this time. On previous occasions it’s refused to boot after installation, or required a newer kernel than that on the installation image to run the wifi card, and which can only be obtained by connecting to the internet to download it. I’ve done this several times, I’m not failing to put the effort in.
I’ve heard the excuses, too. I know it’s supposed to be unstable because it’s cutting edge and rolling-release and that people might find it difficult due to being CLI-based. But Fedora claims to be cutting edge and isn’t so unstable and bug-ridden, same for Sid and my main distribution is Slackware-current, which is cutting edge by slack standards and has slack’s usual level of user friendliness.
So, farewell Arch. I tried to like you, I failed. I will stick with Slackware-current.
Note this statement well: “I like the idea of choosing all the software to be installed rather than getting everything in a uniform package.”
First, pacman installs exactly the dependencies specified in the PKGBUILD. If there was some failure in this area, it would be on the part of the packager (a human being), not the package manager (the pacman software).
Second, there is no such thing as the “xorg metapackage”. Arch normally uses “groups” instead of “metapackages” (with I believe the single exception of offering KDE in both group and metapackage flavors), and there’s no “xorg group” or “xorg metapackage”
Third, you can call xorg-xinit a dependency, but it’s not. startx is not required by xorg-server to work. Since it’s not required, it is not a dependency and it’s not installed automatically. That is one of the **fundamental **points of The Arch Way, and goes directly to the very criteria you say you admired in Arch just a few sentences earlier.
In summary:
*you don’t understand The Arch Way
*you don’t understand how pacman works
*you don’t understand what a dependency is
*you don’t understand how Xorg is packaged
*you don’t understand how to install Xorg.
Here again, you are – to be generous – not knowledgable enough to level this criticism.
The only optional python dependencies of wicd are python-iwscan and python-wpactrl, and both of those are only needed if you want to use the new experimental backend.
(There is an additional optional python-notify dependecy if you install the wicd-gtk version of the package.)
None of these optional dependencies are “absoutely required” in any circumstance, nor have anything to do with wicd starting up.
[… rest of OP continues …]
You have such a poor grasp of Arch (and Linux packages and packaging in general) that no credence can be given to your complaints.
Enjoy whichever distro satisfies your needs, but it’s poor form for you to slag off on one when you so clearly lack the qualifications to do so.
Of course it’s down to a human being, Arch isn’t a computerised fungal growth or something which sprang autochthonously from the nether regions of the internet, it’s all down to some individual human somewhere.
[/quote]
I typed pacman -S xorg, it installed. Call that what you like, for me it’s close enough to being a metapackage. Or group, or whatever pacman has which does the same thing.
Look, I installed wicd (pacman -S wicd) and it gave two optional depencies not installed, presumably those two. I ran wicd-curses, and got a python related error, so I installed the two “optional” dependencies, ran wicd-curses and suddenly it worked. No other packages were installed in between wicd-curses failing with a python error and succeeding to run, nor did I make any changes to any config files or suchlike. So colour me unconvinced as to these happenings being unrelated.
Is this is what you did? If so, you are – at best – entering commands you have no idea what they are doing. RTFM. (I assume your machine does not require 30-some different video card drivers.)
This is not how to install X. It’s not a meta-package. That is not how Arch works, and it matter not one whit if you think “it is close enough” or that “it does the same thing”. RTFM.
It isn’t, it doesn’t, and you still don’t understand. RTFM.
I doubt the accuracy of this statement, especially in the light of your previous inaccuracies and the fact I am using wicd right now in Arch to connect to the internet to type this very post.
I suspect what actually happened is you tried to start the wicd client before the daemon was running, and got something like this in response:
[✍] ~ $ wicd-curses
Can't connect to the daemon, trying to start it automatically...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1022, in <module>
setup_dbus()
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1014, in setup_dbus
dbus_ifaces = dbusmanager.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 36, in get_dbus_ifaces
return DBUS_MANAGER.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 62, in get_dbus_ifaces
if not self._dbus_ifaces: connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 48, in connect_to_dbus
return DBUS_MANAGER.connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 79, in connect_to_dbus
proxy_obj = self._bus.get_object("org.wicd.daemon", '/org/wicd/daemon')
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 244, in get_object
follow_name_owner_changes=follow_name_owner_changes)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/proxies.py", line 246, in __init__
self._named_service = conn.activate_name_owner(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 183, in activate_name_owner
self.start_service_by_name(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 281, in start_service_by_name
'su', (bus_name, flags)))
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/connection.py", line 630, in call_blocking
message, timeout)
dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.wicd.daemon was not provided by any .service files
Not knowing any better (and greatly overestimating your “linux skills”), you thought it was a “python error”, and then later somehow got the daemon started, (perhaps by re-running the command as root) and thought you had fixed it by installing more packages.
I’m sure you didn’t read the wicd guide on the Arch wiki (because I know you didn’t read the Xorg one), which would have told you:
In summary, I’m tired, and you need to RTFM.
Finally, consider that Arch has a team of devoted developers and a large user base. They are all using Arch everyday, especially official packages like Xorg and wicd. What does that mean then, if they can and you can not?
PS - Bullfuckingshit you are running Slackware. (“slack’s usual level of user friendliness”)
I run Arch, and I don’t have wicd installed, so just for fun (and in a spirit of scientific experimentation) I tried to verify this. Here’s what I got.
borghunter@arch ~ $ sudo pacman -S wicd
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...
Targets (3): ethtool-1:3.0-1 python-urwid-0.9.9.2-1 wicd-1.7.0-12
Total Download Size: 0.49 MB
Total Installed Size: 3.27 MB
Proceed with installation? [Y/n]
:: Retrieving packages from extra...
ethtool-1:3.0-1-x86_64 64.6K 342.4K/s 00:00:00 [######################] 100%
python-urwid-0.9.9... 179.9K 489.6K/s 00:00:00 [######################] 100%
wicd-1.7.0-12-any 257.6K 653.0K/s 00:00:00 [######################] 100%
(3/3) checking package integrity [######################] 100%
(3/3) checking for file conflicts [######################] 100%
(1/3) installing ethtool [######################] 100%
(2/3) installing python-urwid [######################] 100%
(3/3) installing wicd [######################] 100%
==> You need to restart the dbus service after
==> upgrading wicd.
==> Disable networkmanager,dhcdbd or other networking
==> utility and add 'wicd' to DAEMONS
==> in /etc/rc.conf
==> 'dbus' HAS to be before 'wicd' in rc.conf in the
==> DAEMONS array.
==> Wireless Interface Connection Daemon
==> To run: wicd-cli or wicd-curses
Optional dependencies for wicd
python-wpactrl: needed if you want to use the new experimental ioctrl backend
python-iwscan: needed if you want to use the new experimental ioctrl backend
wicd-gtk: needed if you want the GTK interface
borghunter@arch ~ $ wicd-curses
Can't connect to the daemon, trying to start it automatically...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1022, in <module>
setup_dbus()
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1014, in setup_dbus
dbus_ifaces = dbusmanager.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 36, in get_dbus_ifaces
return DBUS_MANAGER.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 62, in get_dbus_ifaces
if not self._dbus_ifaces: connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 48, in connect_to_dbus
return DBUS_MANAGER.connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 79, in connect_to_dbus
proxy_obj = self._bus.get_object("org.wicd.daemon", '/org/wicd/daemon')
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 244, in get_object
follow_name_owner_changes=follow_name_owner_changes)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/proxies.py", line 246, in __init__
self._named_service = conn.activate_name_owner(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 183, in activate_name_owner
self.start_service_by_name(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 281, in start_service_by_name
'su', (bus_name, flags)))
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/connection.py", line 630, in call_blocking
message, timeout)
dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.wicd.daemon was not provided by any .service files
borghunter@arch ~ $ sudo pacman -S python-wpactrl python-iwscan
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...
Targets (2): python-wpactrl-20090609-2 python-iwscan-20090609-2
Total Download Size: 0.01 MB
Total Installed Size: 0.08 MB
Proceed with installation? [Y/n]
:: Retrieving packages from extra...
python-wpactrl-200... 5.8K 141.9K/s 00:00:00 [######################] 100%
python-iwscan-2009... 6.6K 170.5K/s 00:00:00 [######################] 100%
(2/2) checking package integrity [######################] 100%
(2/2) checking for file conflicts [######################] 100%
(1/2) installing python-wpactrl [######################] 100%
(2/2) installing python-iwscan [######################] 100%
borghunter@arch ~ $ wicd-curses
Can't connect to the daemon, trying to start it automatically...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1022, in <module>
setup_dbus()
File "/usr/share/wicd/curses/wicd-curses.py", line 1014, in setup_dbus
dbus_ifaces = dbusmanager.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 36, in get_dbus_ifaces
return DBUS_MANAGER.get_dbus_ifaces()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 62, in get_dbus_ifaces
if not self._dbus_ifaces: connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 48, in connect_to_dbus
return DBUS_MANAGER.connect_to_dbus()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/wicd/dbusmanager.py", line 79, in connect_to_dbus
proxy_obj = self._bus.get_object("org.wicd.daemon", '/org/wicd/daemon')
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 244, in get_object
follow_name_owner_changes=follow_name_owner_changes)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/proxies.py", line 246, in __init__
self._named_service = conn.activate_name_owner(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 183, in activate_name_owner
self.start_service_by_name(bus_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/bus.py", line 281, in start_service_by_name
'su', (bus_name, flags)))
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/dbus/connection.py", line 630, in call_blocking
message, timeout)
dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.wicd.daemon was not provided by any .service files
borghunter@arch ~ $ sudo /etc/rc.d/wicd start
:: Starting wicd Daemon [DONE]
borghunter@arch ~ $ wicd-curses
[Terminal is here replaced with the curses interface of wicd.]
borghunter@arch ~ $ sudo pacman -R python-wpactrl python-iwscan
checking dependencies...
Remove (2): python-iwscan-20090609-2 python-wpactrl-20090609-2
Total Removed Size: 0.08 MB
Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n]
(1/2) removing python-iwscan [######################] 100%
(2/2) removing python-wpactrl [######################] 100%
borghunter@arch ~ $ wicd-curses
[Terminal is here replaced with the curses interface of wicd.]
So, no, those optional dependencies are not required by wicd, and installing them did not help in making wicd work for you. Magical thinking is considered harmful; it’s generally best if you try to understand what’s going on with your system instead of wildly trying magical incantations to get things to work. This line, in particular, was telling you what was wrong:
Can't connect to the daemon, trying to start it automatically...