I think it’s Bow-ee. Otherwise Zowie Bowie’s first name would be pronounced like Zoe, and that’s just bollocks. And if you’re going to give a kid a stupid name like that, you make damn sure it sounds right, else there’s no point. Zowie is definitely Zow-ee, and must rhyme with Bowie, ergo Bowie = Bow-ee. Of course, he goes by “Joe”, but that’s immaterial.
Mraaar.
glargh, I totally agree with you! I hate the dumb bitch. Her look is so obviously manufactured, because she doesn’t know anything about punk. I read in one of her articles that she had never even heard The Sex Pistols or The Pretenders. That cunt’s 15 minutes of fame need to be over soon!
I believe it is pronounced like “Zoe”. Poor kid.
AFAIK when David Jones adopted his stage name he wanted it to be pronounced “Boo - ee”, like the knife, but this was a futile hope. You’ll always hear “Bow (rhymes with ‘dough’) - ee” in the US. I have heard that the “Bow (rhymes with ‘cow’) - ee” pronounciation is favored in the UK, but I didn’t bother to check up on this when I was in England. Can any British Dopers confirm or deny?
And FWIW and IMHO, Bowie’s only real contribution to punk was acting as producer on Raw Power…and he didn’t do such a hot job of that. Still, without his name (however you pronounce it) on the project the album probably never would have been made at all.
Eek. April Levin or (Avril levigne), your time is up. Leave your tie on the floor in the mall and be sure and turn out the lights when you leave. Joe Perry? A guitar influence? Please hang on whilst I begin to seize and subsequently vomit.
I know she’s Canadian, and that excuses her from a lot of things, but for the love of all things bright and beautiful, JOE PERRY? Off the very top of my pointed head, I could name 5 people (T-Bone Walker, Allen Holdsworth, Jeff Beck, B.B. King, Steve Vai) who could, whilst blind drunk and missing 3 out of ten fingers, outplay Joe Perry.
For the record, SHE IS NOT PUNK. Punk is a mini-movement, spurred by a political statement being made by drunken Cockney Brits, fed up with the class structure in the UK, and subsequently
the underhanded global politics, played by nations across the globe. April is, the same way Blink 182 is and Good Charlotte and The Get Up Kids are, emo-pop/rock. Though April is far more bubblegum, and yes, just because she’s a girl.
Can girls rock? Hell yes! Can they do punk? No. Think about how Anarchy in the UK would have sounded with Courtney Love at the spitter! Egad! The horror!
Anyway, like I was sayin’ Fuck Avril! (punk enough for you, or should I urinate on your shoes?)
Punk isn’t dead, it just smells that way
Only because she’s pretending to be something she’s not. Shopping at Hot Topic don’t make you punk. I’ve only read a few interviews, but they’ve all consisted of her either
Patting herself on the back about how she writes all of her own music, when if you look at the writing credits on her cd (my friend has it okay?) she’s got a co-writer for every single song
Claiming over and over again how she’s a skater. But yet, you never see her actually skateboarding. She just carries it around with her all the time. Betcha she doesn’t even know how to ride the damn thing.
This is the clincher: throwing a goddamn hissy when anyone calls her pop. But she is pop! They play her music on pop stations. I’ve heard her music on Star 101 (the same station that plays Celine Dion). I’ve also heard her do spots for a similar station here. Way to stick by your guns there princess.
I wouldn’t have a problem with her if she wasn’t so goddamn persistant about claiming she’s something she’s not. Ya don’t hear Brittney and N’Sync proclaiming how origional their music is. Because they know it’s not. That’s why, even though I don’t care for their music, they don’t bug me.
Avril bugs the living shit outta me. She’s a mini Alanis Morrisette, (who to the best of my knowledge, never threw a temper tantrum whenever anyone dared to call her pop) she just needs to accept it and quit being such a little brat. It makes me so mad because I like some of her songs but I can’t listen to them without getting all huffy. :mad:
I think I need to mellow a little 
[sub]Pssst! Over here![/sub]
I wasn’t offended! I was just saying that Joe Perry ain’t a punk guitarist. That’s all.
Really.
I wasn’t yelling at you. I was yelling at Avril.
FWIW, Ogre, I was a punk 20 years ago or so…, and the punks I have had the pleasure of talking two the last year or two are pretty much the same as the punks I knew back then. Mercutio on this board for instance could have been pulled right from my group of friends back in the day. So punk apears to be alive and well…As for the bands, screw em…Punk wasnt about bands…If punks listen to polka then polka is punk.
I prefer Avril Lavigne with the sound off though.
While we’re bitching about the Grammys (and I haven’t seen another thread for doing so):
How in Cecil’s name can a collective list of the five best albums of 2002 among people who purportedly know something about music include neither Wilco’s Yankee Hotel Foxtrot nor Beck’s Sea Change? Well, it’s apparently possible, because the nominees for Album of the Year include neither, despite the fact that it has traditionally been the safest category for non-claptrap.
Failing to include one or the other, I could understand. Both albums missing from any one person’s personal top five, sure. But these albums were both such triumphs, and the consensus of the music industry is that neither of them is in the year’s top five?
Sick. Truly sick. Oh well, I’m sure Nelly earned it. :rolleyes:
(It is possible, I guess, that YHF was not eligible this year since it was officially released on the internet last year. If so, translate that portion of the rant to last year–while that was by far a better crop of albums, it should have been there.)
Dr. J
Definition and not substance again, bdgr. All I’m saying is that calling rebellious music “punk rock” now is roughly analogous (IMHO) to saying that the young women swing dancing and doing the Charleston at jazz clubs today are “Flappers.”
In my opinion, they’re not, since Flappers were tied to a particular movement that was unique to its place and time, and its own political and cultural context.
Same deal with punk.
As always, IMHO, standard boilerplate, YMMV. It doesn’t bother me what you call them.
What does bother me is that a lot of the modern “punk” bands (and here I’m thinking of NOFX, etc.) are still playing the same old Ramones/Bad Religion/Minor Threat stuff. Three chords, no waiting.
I think I’m getting cranky in my old age. But before anyone accuses me of losing touch with my youth or some shit, I still listen to all sorts of music. Really I do.
Well, as a relative old fart who never heard of this person, I zipped over to MTV to try to find her music, but alas, MTV apparently doesn’t do music anymore…
If it helps, my friend Dawn met Avril and hung out with her a bit over the summer at the San Diego Comic-con (Dawn draws Sonic the Hedghog comics for Archie and was like special and featured or something), and she informs me that Avril Lavigne is a complete and utter uppity little whiny highschool bitch. Yet I still bought her album… hangs head what can I say, it’s catchy!
But she also informed me that Michelle Branch (my hero!) is really cool and nice and friendly and stuff. So that makes me happy. 
I can see how she’s annoying, but what’s with all the fire and brimstone people feel compelled to spew at her mention?
I see it this way: Sugary, watered-down “punk” (Blink-182, Sum41, Wang091192829, whatever) becomes a hit on MTV. Joe Record Label sees a niche to be filled in the popular music market: sugary, watered-down “punk” female solo artist. A Britney for the Blink-182 crowd (though I daresay the demographics overlap more than a little). End result: Avril LaVigne, pop punk princess with a perfectly formulated personality and “image.”
Now look, the poor girl probably just wanted to be famous. She probably had no bigger dream than singing her bland, vanilla rock to packed venues. Joe Record Label scoops her up, drops her into the Spin-O-Matic and a star is born.
I guess what I’m saying is that Avril is a product. Someone Else writes her songs for her, but she has to play them off as her own. Her every move and word is most likely at the least given a nudge from some higher power, and at the most utterly dictated. When a company churns out a product you dislike, it’s illogical to blame the product itself.
…
However, I must admit that seeing her bounce around like an ADHD-afflicted seven year old grates my fucking nerves. She also started that horrid trend of wearing ties with collarless shirts. This is hideous. Girls should not be allowed to wear neckties unless they (a) pair them with a nice collared shirt, and (b) can fucking TIE THEM on their own!
seethe, seethe.
I hear what your saying Ogre, I really do. But punk, at least in my small part of the world, was a way of life and a philosophy. You could sit down down with someone and talk to them and know in five minutes if they were punk, no matter how they dressed or what music they listened too. I really dont know anything about flappers, but I have met kids today that dress in some sort of psuedo punk attire, and listen to music that they call punk, but dont have the rest of it…You talk to them and they might as well be yuppies.
But there is still a strong real punk “movement”…The philosophy is there, the outlook is there, they are punks…The year has nothing to do with it…I hesitate to use the term movement, because that implys some sort of comon goal and organization which I dont think ever realy existed…not clearly defined anyway.
I didnt get into most of the music back in the day, I listened the Dead Kennedys, Badbrains, the ramones, and The exploited quite a bit, and the pistols occasionally, but the music was a very small part of the whole…So I dont care if the modern bands are still playing the same old three chord stuff…It doesnt even enter into the equation. If real punks listen to it, its punk, if they dont, its not…I dont think punk is dead…I do think punk is for the young, and its whatever the kids want to make it today…More power to 'em…Geezers like me should stay the hell out of it.
Yeah, I try to tell my band mates(all 18 and 19 year olds) that MTV used to show music videos, but they dont believe me.
What was the punk movement? Punk’s origin has been frequently been discussed in many places, including these forums.
Was punk back in the early-to-mid-70s in NYC? The late-70s in England? The late-70s/early-80s in California? The early-80s in DC? The mid-to-late-80s NYC hardcore scene? The late-80s northern Cali scene? [add your scene here]
A lot of different people were involved in these various scenes, and most probably consider themselves punks. It wasn’t until the popularity of Green Day and the Offspring that suddenly strict punk lines were drawn, as before then there wasn’t a punk band popular enough to make it an issue of who was really “punk”.
No one told me when punk died. I have been listening to it for 18 years, and it still seems very much alive to me.
Look, I’m not going to argue the particulars of punk’s death, as it has very little to do with Avril Lavigne or the OP.
I’m happy you consider the “punk scene” to be the same as it was 20 years ago. I don’t. I personally would put the cut-off in the early 80’s, right when punk “fashions” became mainstream in the New Wave, etc.
So, according to your timeline, right after the DC 80’s scene. Minor Threat and Bad Brains are punk (IMHO.) Sickofitall and the Gorilla Biscuits (NYC hardcore) are not.
Call it arbitrary. Call it academic. I’m OK with that.
I agree completely, scablet. Avril is the new Britney Spears for 2003. Her being punk is just the establishment’s way to try and cash in on the anti-Britney backlash. And I honestly don’t know if she realizes that she’s “punk” only as long as They want her to be. I doubt that Avril wanted to just be a medium success as you suggest; I haven’t found a high schooler (or younger?) yet who wanted only to be a medium-level success. I’m sure she wanted to make it big, just like everyone else. Not that that makes her packaging any less unpalatable…
“And now, the Establishment is proud to present it’s newest creation, the anti-establishment punk rocker Avril Lavigne!”
…I don’t think I’ve ever seen another industry actually work so hard at milking the backlash to it’s own creations. Then again, I haven’t seen another industry be so successful at it, too.
…And on a side note, Avril Lavigne being called “punk” is proof to me that punk rock is dead, buried, dug up, and raised as undead. Quite sad.
Vengeant
Something tells me you are completely unfamiliar with the music of NOFX. “Ramone-like?” “Three chord?” The only thing the Ramones and NOFX have in common is that they were both comprised of carbon-based life forms.
I love Avril. That whole angry model chick thing is killer.
Avril shits me incredibly for many reasons - she once called herself the “Sid Vicious of this generation”, “hardcore”, and said that she could be as big as Britney if she really wanted to be, but she doesn’t want to be as she’s punk and of course would hate commercial success (???). Honestly, she must have the worst PR person alive if they let her spout that kind of crap. A quick listen through her CD reveals that most of it is actually comprised of ballads, how is that punk in the slightest? She’s basically a teenager who wants to seem rebellious by jumping around and smashing things for no particular reason, except that she heard it’s “hardcore” and thus it must be done. In any interview I’ve seen she’s struck me as quite possibly the most annoying person to ever live, and I’ve known some pretty annoying people.
This website should be your bible: http://www.recroommagazine.com/articles/avril.htm