Dan Savage's "We can learn to ignore the bullsh!t in the Bible about gay people..." incident

[quote=“puddleglum, post:159, topic:620588”]

[li]Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide. - “It gets better” does this by blaming the suicides solely on bullying.[/li][/quote]

“It Gets Better” doesn’t blame suicides solely on bullying.

[quote]
[li]Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news. - They do this by uploading thousands of videos to youtube many of which are repetitive and cumulatively they are excessive.[/li][li]Providing sensational coverage of suicide. - Their coverage is very sensational and emotional.[/li][/quote]

They’re not reporting and they don’t provide any kind of coverage or suicides or any other news events. They create public service announcements.

No, they don’t. Look, I get that you don’t like Dan Savage. You don’t have to, and my support for him is not unqualified. But at this point you’re making a string of totally erroneous assertions about him and his work that seem to be motivated by personal dislike rather than an informed view of what he does - because your view seems to be deeply misinformed. And the comment about “special rights for gays” is a dead giveaway.

Again: I remember public service announcements going back to the '90s that drew attention to the fact that gay teens were at a greater risk for suicide (and homelessness). By the reasoning you’re employing against Savage, those people were encouraging suicide by telling gay teens that other gay teens sometimes killed themselves. According to that logic - and it’s not the logic Dart is using - there is no way to do anything about suicide and everybody should ignore it.

While we are a secular country, it was based on religious freedom. We have had numerous POTUS’s that have a background of faith and were a success

John F Kennedy?

The key if is the ability to understand the vision of separating Church and State.

Those who cannot make this distinction are a threat to this Nation

Public service announcements are media just as much as a story on the news. There is a way to approach the issue in a way that does not lead to more suicides. It should point out the it is a very complex issue with many causes both biological and environmental. It should encourage people to seek help and recognize the signs. There are lots of resources out there to help design a program.
All of my assertions have been backed by links to articles by mental health professionals backed by many studies. My personal feelings for Savage are immaterial, the evidence shows that his organization is doing harm to vulnerable people.

Where was his organisation even mentioned in the cites you gave?

Yes, they are definitely media. What they are not is reporting, and the Dart Center tip sheet says, in very large print, “Recommendations for Reporting on Suicide.” The “It Gets Better” Project does not report news. It doesn’t report suicides, doesn’t discuss methods of suicide, doesn’t have headlines and doesn’t run afoul of the wording guidelines as far as I know. From what I can tell, it does not do any of the other things Dart talks about. Your argument that they are sensationalizing suicide of gay teens by mentioning the fact that those suicides occur is ludicrous, and the idea that that glamorizes things even more so.

You may think so, but I think your posts prove otherwise.

To be clear, I think sane conservatism is an asset to the discussion as well as the country. But temperamentally, there are those who pride themselves more on their fidelity to principle or tribe than on being sensible. It’s not a false equivalence to observe that this occurs on both sides. A strong sense of professionalism also can knock one out of the fanatical category. Sometimes and sort of: Ron Paul may be a nutball in terms of his economics, but I don’t seem him aligning himself with the anti-vaxers. Though I assume a few medical professionals do.

Back on topic. Here’s a discussion of arsenokoitai. Apparently the first person to use the term was Paul, as far as is known. There was already a word for homosexual -paiderasste- which for some reason Paul didn’t use. And OBTW, Timothy was probably written after Paul died. But arsenokoitai is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians, which was written by Paul circa 55. http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

Complicated. But methinks there’s some pretty good evidence at least of some wary circumspection in the NT on the subject.

I didn’t even realize Ron Paul was fluent in Greek.

I did, however, know that Paul was that old.

Was Corinthians the name of the company that produced Brüno?

From your link:

" At the time of Martin Luther, “arsenokoitai” was universally interpreted as masturbator."

I thought they were in the leather business.