Dancing on the grave of health care "reform"

I think selfish means “devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others” and greedy is just a synonym for selfish, and liberals’ attitudes perfectly fit the bill. When it comes to how my money should be spent, they are concerned primarily with their own interests and are not concerned with mine.

No, dipshit.

First, the plan won’t benefit me directly, as I said. I think it is in the country’s interests.

Second, and more importantly, it isn’t selfish because I think it is in your interests too. As I said, it might be arrogant for me to think I am a better judge of your own interests than you are, but it isn’t wither greedy or selfish.

First, there’s a new tax that does specifically target a group I am a member of. Second, I am talking about liberal’s attitudes expressed to me–I am perfectly aware that I am not the only person towards whom they have this attitude.

On your other points, I think that the military is a legitimate government function whereas programs designed simply (or primarily) to re-distribute wealth are not. I am perfectly willing to pay my share of the cost of legitimate government functions. Therefore, I don’t simply believe that I shouldn’t pay any taxes. But by the same token, I don’t think that the price of living in a society should be that I am forced to pay for everything that liberals think would be a good idea.

I think that’s the point of what he said. YOU think the military is a legitimate government function and YOU think programs to help people to “re-distribute” wealth are not. YOU think. Other people don’t think so. I think paying for the wars we’ve been in for 8 years is a terrible way to spend our taxes. YOU may think otherwise.

Living in a society does mean that sometimes you are forced to pay for things other people find to be good ideas, just like I am forced to pay for things others find to be a good idea.

Rand may be the first person to lie on his death bed wishing he had spent more time at the office. Guess somebody has to. Damn sure won’t be me.

Right. YOU THINK it is in the country’s interests and YOU THINK it is in my interests. I don’t think those things. Therefore, forcing me to pay for it is selfish on your part because you are saying that your beliefs are more important than mine.

So what? It’s still ridiculous to want government to take money from other people and put it to use in programs or systems of government that you support and then call the people from whom it will be forcibly taken selfish if they object. It’s clearly more selfish to say “I support this program” or “I want the government to assume these responsibilities” and then follow by saying “And if you balk at paying for it you’re a selfish asshole”.

I’m sure you would object if one of your neighbors showed up wanting access to your refrigerator, closets, tool box or bank account because he happened to need things you have and couldn’t afford them.

People insisting on UHC (or any other socialistic program or way of government) want government to do exactly that. It is not selfish to want to keep what you have; it is selfish to insist that what other people have should be appropriated for use in ways YOU see fit.

Do you not get that I am paying for things that YOU think are in the country’s interests and I don’t? YOU are forcing me to pay for things and being selfish because you think your beliefs are more important than mine.

It’s not that her beliefs are more important than yours, or that my beliefs are more important than yours… it’s that the beliefs of a majority of the country are more important than yours.

I understand that and don’t dispute it. But that alone cannot be used as a justification for doing any government program that someone thinks is a good idea.

I think we are moving too far afield from what I originally posted. Imagine a typical conversation between me and a liberal. They say “the government should do x.” I say “I don’t want to pay for that.” They say “you are being selfish vecause you just want to keep your money to spend on yourself.”

In my post above, all I’m saying is that I think it is perfectly legitimate for me to now say “actually, you are being selfish by wanting to force me to pay for something that serves your interests instead of mine.” If the liberal then says “no, x would serve the country’s interests, not just mine,” then I would say “no, it serves your belief about the country’s interests, which shows why you are being selfish.”

I have yet to hear any conservative ever call a liberal selfish for not wanting to fund some increase in the scope of government.

Well that just proves it, doesn’t it? Starving Artist of the Straight Dope hasn’t heard it so it must be so. Thanks for the info.

Well, I wouldn’t say that you are selfish for being against the healthcare initiative. People have a lot of reasons for not agreeing with it and many (if not most of them) have nothing to do with being selfish IMHO. I’m not 100% sold on the program that has been passed but I feel that it’s a step in the right direction.

I’ve seen way too many people in our emergency departments who are there because they couldn’t afford to go to the doctor when their symptoms started and they were hoping to wait it out in hopes that it would get better. It didn’t and now they are in a true emergent situation. To me, that’s sad.

Working in healthcare I have always had excellent insurance for next to nothing. I am extremely lucky in that way. I make a good salary and could afford more for my healthcare if I had to. Not everyone in in that boat. I’m not a “share the wealth” kind of person on most issues and believe that those who are successful financially have a right to enjoy their money. I just don’t see health and wellness as something that should be only for a certain class of people.

Okay, ball’s in your court. When have YOU (or hell, anyone you know) ever heard a conservative call a liberal selfish for not wanting to increase the scope of government?

It simply doesn’t happen. Liberals ALWAYS want more government.

No, but if they, say, don’t want to increase funding and expansion of the military, they might get called traitor or anti-American.

Not true. As a fr’instance, I really wish the government would stop telling me who I can marry.

I have no interest in having a conversation with anyone stupid enough to engage in thinking that they can characterize a large group by saying they ALWAYS want something. That’s so stupid I’m not sure how you function unassisted in the world.

Here’s a tip: not everyone who wants healthcare for everyone even IS a liberal let alone ALWAYS wants more government.

Plus, you’re twisting the parameters of what’s been said anyway. Now you’ve twisted it so that you want me to give you an example of a conservative calling someone selfish for not wanting to expand government. Do you always argue so dishonestly or is it this topic? You came trundling into my comment #1088 to Rand Rover where I was simply giving his answer back to him and then twisted it to your own ignorant question. What crap

We are (or at least I am) talking about fiscal conservatives and fiscal liberals, so gay marriage doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

Actually, I wasn’t talking to you at all. Shouldn’t you be planning to leave the country, or curl up and cry with your binky or something?

You talk a lot about beliefs. Do you think it is impossible to know (with some arbitrary level of confidence) that some policy can improve social welfare? Not necessarily a liberal policy, per se, but any policy? Or are we forever stuck in the world of competing beliefs of equal validity?