It’s bright, to be sure, but the lower left of the picture
seems to show a long shadow of someone’s leg, IMO.
The stories labeling the film as bogus could just as easily be a hoax as well, folks. Just because you found it on a website doesn’t make it true.
Nope, I don’t think so. It’s a link to a view and to more related leads. As such, it might help get to the bottom of the issue.
I said it was a ‘link’, not the answer. But thank you for your concern over my mental stability, you’ll be pleased to learn you’re not entirely alone. Woof.
FYI,
Here’s a link to a Sun Position Calculator:
http://www.geocities.com/senol_gulgonul/sun/
Nablus is 32d13’ North 35d16’ East and 3 hours ahead of GMT
I calculated that the sun would have an elevation of 28.67 degrees, and that a ten unit long vertical rod would cast an 18.27 unit long shadow.
Bumbazine and pldennison both have have good points. It is entirely possible that rumor/story is not true…or at least not entirely accurate. Unfortunately, everyone has their biases and the best anyone can do is to do their best in cross checking information with a variety of sources…which (also unfortunately) is time consuming.
The reason why I think it is a good link (and perhaps why London Calling felt it was one also) is that it showed where Counter Punch got its original information (confirming, at least, that Mr. Carvalho did indeed say it). More informative, however, was the discussion under his original post where it told of various organizations attempting to corroborate this rumor/story and a couple of websites where further information would be posted.
Absimia
It’s the whole dancing in the streets thing that wierds me out. I mean, if you hear we’ve just bombed the starch out of bin Ladin will you go out and dance in the street? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t mourn, but I wouldn’t celebrate. I would dance if there had been a war going on for a while and I found out it was over, I don’t celebrate the battles themselves. I don’t celebrate death.
I certainly would not but sadly I have heard more than a few people say that they would.
Is L_C nuts? Naw, he’s just a little coo-coo at times. 
You are comparing our culture with one that is ENTIRELY different. Shoot, on Yahoo! News this morning I saw a photo of an Afghani man selling a wall hanging with a picture of OBL and machine guns on it; the picture was dated September 14. http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20010914/ts/mdf52390.html
Do you really believe that there AREN’T Muslim extremists out there that are thrilled this happened? Thrilled enough to dance? These are people so full of poisonous hate they see nothing wrong with killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children. They see nothing wrong with strapping explosives to themselvse and taking part in suicide attacks at restaurants and bars.
Given the way the Palestinian Authority censors the media, it’s something of a small miracle this footage got through. I’m sure it was only the tip of the iceberg.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20010914/wl/mdf52512.html
We are innocent and want to believe that all people are basically good. Our minds boggle at the thought that there can be such evil, warped people in the world that would dance at war and tragedy. There are.
Palandine: Please reconcile your phrases “Muslim extremists” and “tip of the iceberg.” Thanks.
C K Dexter, excellent counter-point. Very well, we’re all still unclear on the timing of this footage. I wish we could get absolute confirmation on the validity of this video tape.
To say it is appropriate to use file footage in this situation is to say it was okay for NBC to stage those trucks exploding several years ago because “it really did happen to somoeone”.
“Tip of the iceberg” may have been a bit much and I’ll willingly retract that. However, I’ll bet dollars to donuts that there was more than the one demonstration shown on CNN. Any ideology that can put a rifle in a child’s hands and adorn a turban with pictures of OBL and guns cannot be underestimated.
I don’t know how many people there are who qualify as being the sort of poisonous haters who would celebrate this sort of thing. There’s the Taliban, of course. There’s Saddam Hussein and his followers. The leaders of Syria? The leaders of Sudan? The leaders of Libya? I suppose whatever transpires in the next few weeks to months will establish who supports the terrorists and who supports all decent human beings.
That’s not to say that the majority of Muslims don’t entirely abhor this act of war and other atrocities like it. I just don’t see why people’s minds are boggling at the thought that there are people out in the world who are gleeful over what has been done to us.
Articulately reconciled.
It’s possible that the video has been “re-contextualized.” I’m surprised to find that it doesn’t bother me if it has been. There have been plenty of confirmed reports of people who felt moved to celebrate this event. Hell, I’m sure you could find pockets of people “celebrating” even in the U.S.
In the early 40’s, the National Film Board of Canada really faked footage of Nazi concentration camps. It was included in newsreels shown to Canadians and passed off as “clandestine” film. Obviously, this doesn’t mean that the holocaust didn’t happen, it was just easier to illustrate what was reasonably certain to have to happened that way than with the genuine article.
Personally, I find that pretty nearly abhorrent; your mileage, obviously, may vary.
Again, I have no doubt that some are very happy about the attack, happy enough to have a celebration. If CNN came on and said “There have been some pockets of celebration reported” or “Hundreds of people have come out in celebration.” I’d have no problem. Them’s the facts. If they’d had the same report and showed the stock footage and it was labeled as “File Footage”…I’d have only a minor beef. It is the (possible) showing of old news images and saying “look at what is going on, see it with your own eyes” and holding up the old images as proof that I would have to take exception to.
I, like Gadarene, take exception to the actions of the National Film Board of Canada. To make up evidence to prove a fact (even a fact that has a lot of other evidence) is, to me, dishonest.
That being said, it seems like this thread is heading towards Great Debate land. (Is it permissible to create or reuse “news footage” to support something that is, in actuality, taking place?) Perhaps I oughtta make a thread there also.
I’d sure like to see a cite for this before we all start flaming the National Film Board. I don’t see anything on Google.
It was my understanding that the rest of the world didn’t really know anything about the concentration camps until the end of the war. So why would the National Film Board have gone to the trouble of faking a movie in the early 1940s?
Larry? [insert emoticon for extreme skepticism]
If the PA is really going to such lengths to squelch reports of dancing in the streets, then I would be more inclined to believe the footage was fake. First I would want to know if that really was the case, though. Arafat has been letting the media know (mostly through sympathetic experts on the situation) that his people are far more radicalized than he is. Allowing one or two crews to get a small sampling of his poeple’s attitudes might just be another attempt to make his point.
Well, think of it this way… assuming that the Palistinians in question heard of the attack, oh, an hour after the fact, that still puts the time of day in the late afternoon. There have been news crews all over the area for the past few years, due to the near-constant conflict there, so it’s not surprising that at least one guy with a camera managed to snatch up these clips. Then assuming an hour or two to get the footage transmitted to the States…
I, for one, see no problems with the “timing”. Nor do I doubt its accuracy. In case you’ve forgotten, there are some people who absolutely hate us. Some groups in the Middle East have become so entrenched in their anti-American (actually, it’s “anti-anything that isn’t them”) that the basic notion of human decency has been lost to them. My only relief in the situation is knowing that the hateful ones are in the minority.
I also don’t think that press propaganda is a conspiracy theory-it’s done all the time. Remember the story about the Iraq soldiers pulling babies out of incubators?
Who knows?