Someone had told me they saw on CNN images of West Bank Palestinians celebrating the WTC. It didn’t surprise me entirely as I know there are some people out there who have gripes with the US and some of them live in the West Bank. I just found this however from http://www.counterpunch.org:
CNN’s videotape of Palestinians supposedly dancing in the streets of a West Bank town. CounterPuncher Marcio A.V. Carvalho at the state university of Campinas in Brazil tells us that he and his colleagues had compared this tape with one from 1991 showing Palestinian cheering, and found them to be identical.
Is anyone able to corroborate this? I looked on the CNN website for a possible retraction, but found nothing.
The university exists: ( www.unicamp.br/ ).
Several variations on the name Marcio Carvalho show up when the (spanish language) website is searched. If the story is a hoax, someone put at least a little effort into creating it. Have you tried emailing Counterpunch for more information ?
I have to admit that the events of September 11 are kind of muddled into one big nightmare so I really don’t remember what time of day I first saw the video of the celebrating Palestinians.
Something about it has been bugging me. The images I saw were taken outdoors in full daylight. Wouldn’t it have been night time in the West Bank or am I just confused with the time periods that the news clip was shown?
Palestine is 7 hours ahead of the East Coast, and on Sept. 11th the sun set at approx. 6:50 pm. So, if the films were taken anywhere after, say, 11:00 am EST, then the sunlight should be dusk at least. I did not personally see the videos, due to being in class all day, but I have heard them described as being in full sunlight/midafternoon.
There is a possibility that the videos are real, but you must take into account the time it takes for information to spread through a population, the time for the videos to be made and transmitted, and the decision to air the clips.
I first saw the infamous dancing Palestinian woman ™ at about 1:00 PM EDT on Tuesday. That would mean the dancing Palestinian crowd was filmed before 8:00 PM, Israel time.
See why I am confused? Doesn’t the lighting look like it is in the middle of the day instead of late afternoon or evening?
Ooops - I hit reply too quick.
Wouldn’t it have taken some time to get the footage to the news stations and decisions made to have them aired? I guess I am just wondering how the timing all fits together with the showing of the footage, the lighting, the time of day it was shown, etc.
I agree it seems suspicious at least. It looked like a full noonday sun to me when I saw it, but I didn’t think twice about it until now.
Israel has CNN, as does most of the world. Chances are they could have seen it live, and begun immediate celebrations. 9-9:30 AM EST would put it at 3-3:30 PM, not incompatible with the lighting, IMHO. Not that I’m saying it isn’t slightly fishy, but I still tend to trust major news-gathering operations like the AP. Call me naive.
In addition to the obvious time difference problems with the authenticity of that footage and the suspicions already raised by some groups, it may also help to remember that there are always (unfortunately) some unscrupoulus individuals in the media for whome ratings are more important than decency. Even with events as tragic as this one, or perhaps especially in such big events, newsgroups want to have the story first, or perhaps something new that no one else does; and often the more shocking the better. It seems sick, but when every channel has footage of an airliner crashing into the WTC tower, there’s a push to find something even bigger, and fast… and what better way to congure up outrage and attention than to show footage of foreigners supposedly celebrating the event? Do we know specifically what those people were celebrating or why? (it may well be old stock footage of a birthday party for all we know) - we don’t even know when it was really taken or by whom. It may turn out to be authentic, it very well might not. Hopefully not many people will let something like one individual 10-second clip of unknown and suspect origins upset them more than they’ve already been.
Well not only that mmmiiikkkeee but 10 little kids, 2 adult males and 1 old lady do not come anywhere close to a mass celebration. Oh, I did see one car with 2 men honking their horn. Wow, 15 people dancing in the street. I’d hate for the Palestinian television to broadcast the last KKK rally (where 5 people showed up) - and tell their audience that this was normal procedure in the USA.
Here’s Máricio Carvalho’s original statement (with comments): http://indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63288&group=webcast
Lockfist says << Wow, 15 people dancing in the street. >>
It should be recalled that there is not a free press in the Palestine-controlled territories. Any footage taken without the OK of the Palestine Authority was probably taken clandestinely – hence might only be able to show a small number of people. If the person were seen photographing without the approval of the Authority, the film would have been confiscated and the reporter kicked out of the country.
Diane says << Doesn’t the lighting look like it is in the middle of the day instead of late afternoon or evening? >> Oh, please. Do you really think you could distinguish – on a fairly grainy videotape that shows (in close-up shots) a bunch of people milling about – between (say) 1 PM and 5 PM lighting in the summer? It’s not like you have a view of the sky or sun, or surrounding lighting or shade (are they in the open? is this the main street of a well-lit mall? Are they under a street lamp?)
Oh, wait! Look! They are waving Palestinian flags and those flags are waving! But in the heavier atmosphere around the Middle East, the flags wouldn’t be waving! See?? We never got to the moon at all-- er, I mean, those weren’t taken in Palestine, those pictures were taken in Mexico City in 1918, celebrating the end of WWI!
I am awaiting the speculation that the whole thing was faked by the architects, because they knew the building was structurally sound, and they were afraid they’d be sued. Those weren’t really planes flying into the building, they were digitally remastered special effects.
We live in an age when the conspiracy theorists have their fingers in everything. Bah.
Wild-ass speculation: It is certainly possible that a reporter called in the story, but wasn’t allowed to have a camera, and so older footage was used to “illustrate” a phone call story. It is also possible that the whole thing was master-minded by Dick Chaney as a way to discredit George Bush and take over the world, Pinky.
This article reports that the Palestinian Authority has threatened news crews with violence if they air any footage of celebrating citizens.
I hadn’t emailed counterpunch, but the link floater gave was very informative.
C K Dexter, I would agree that I don’t think this is a big conspiracy by the Zionists to cement relations with the US (or any such hogwash) and as I said, I didn’t see it myself. I do, however, wonder/question whether or not CNN labeled the video as File Footage. If the netword did not label it as such, I think they were not being entirely honest.
Yep, excellent link from Floater. Quote:
“Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It’s simply
unacceptable that a super-power of cumminications as CNN uses images
which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious an
I’m so pissed off, I’ve sent three e-mails to different BBC news programmes. It’s unusual they let this get by them and it’s really not acceptable. If it is from 1991 and it’s a CNN ‘mistake’, I think it’s going to seriously damage their reputation within the serious news reporting media. Very, very bad.
Let me just remind you that I posted my question in a GQ because, well because I simply had a question:
I don’t think I implied anything, just simply asked for verification of when the clip was first shown especially in comparison to the time of day on the West Bank. I also said that the lighting looked like it was midday, not a street light, not a well lit mall - midday. This opinion added to my confusion as to when the clip was first shown.
If you want to toss in sarcastic insults regarding the moon hoax and flag waving in response to my honest question, well it just makes me lose a bit of respect for you as someone I can count on to answer a question I may have.
Don’t worry, I won’t make that mistake again.
L_C - The website is interesting but I guess I want more evidence that it was filmed 1991 before I get too upset. I don’t know which would be worse, if they were truly celebrating WTC or if it really is old footage they pulled out for sensationalism.
Not trying to be funny.
When I saw the thread title, I had a single moment in which I thought that some freak had created a horrible, twisted version of that gdn Hamster Dance. :eek:
“Exellent link”? Are you nuts? The only evidence to support this assertion so far is Floater’s link; the Counterpunch link in the OP doesn’t provide anything aside from a mention of the assertion at Floater’s link.
Has anyone actually seen a tape that was clearly recorded in 1991 that contains this footage? Has such a tape been produced anywhere or broadcast by anyone? No? You mean all we have is the assertion of one person?
So much for the Straight Dope. If all we require now is the assertion of one person on a website somewhere to classify a statement as “true,” then things are hopeless indeed.