for those of you who keep focusing on ‘maybe later she said yes’, allow me to point out that physical contact went on after the ‘no’ and pushing away (ie therefore it’s “unwanted” physical contact). That makes it criminal sexual assault in the eyes of the law in the State of Michigan. Period. Any thing said/done later is irrelevant - the ‘no’ meant **at that point in time “get your fucking hands off of me.” **
My other point is, that the cretin involved did not ever acknowledge the ‘no’. It was all about ‘ahhhh, honey, you know you want it’ crap. And, as has been pointed out, if at some point after (pick an amount of time) of struggling, crying, ‘no’ push shove etc, the other person stops fighting, passes out. whimpers or whatever, do not take that as a “yes”. at the word no, contact should stop. If it doesn’t it’s an assault.
For those of you who need to (for whatever reason) focus on some one changing their mind, keep your fucking hands to yourself in the meantime, otherwise, it’s an assault. Get it? So, maybe the scene could be: grope grope ‘no, I don’t want to’. stop groping. ok, we talk, spend more time together w/out the hands going on, and **if ** the other person has changed their mind, then they can let you know. (espciailly in the example given of a verbal ‘you know what, I changed my mind, let’s go’. If, of course, instead of saying something like that, they start puking or attempt to leave or actually pass out, leave them the fuck alone, ya know?
Keeee-rist. I remember a scene with my mom at one point. She was mad at me, and started slapping me across my face (I was about 13/14). I, being the stubborn wench I am, decided ‘you’re not going to make me cry’. well, she kept slapping me. After a dozen or so, I realized ‘she’s gonna do this until I cry, okey dokey’, so started crying just so she’d stop hitting me. So, to translate what’s happening to the person saying no: grope grope. “no” . more grope grope “NO” and a push, more frantic grope grope grope. Now, at this point, you realize the other person doesn’t acknowledge your right to say no at all. They may be bigger/stronger than you, you may have found yourself in a position that doesn’t have a safe escape route (and frankly, if it was a friend who thinks of ‘escape routes’ before hand??? ) realistically, what are the options here? how many times should the person have to say ‘no’ before the question and continued groping is stopped? To me the answer is ‘once’. YMMV, but rest assured that in the eyes of the law, your ass may well be in jail if you fail to stop unwanted physical contact.
I’ve gone the whole nine yards on this thread. I almost didn’t post at all. then, thought, maybe some one can learn from my experience (ie that ‘no’ should be taken as a ‘no’, etc.). It was strange, that event happened in 1972. I’d felt rage/hurt/shame for years about it. But when I posted it here, I remember thinking ‘wow - it finally doesn’t hurt anymore to think about that’. Then I came back to the thread and heard/saw the ‘maybe you said yes later’, and it all came back.
I’m not angry about it right now (other, larger issues going on). But, I’m done arguing about it. I know that I was assaulted. I said no, and he persisted. whatever the fuck happened. It was ugly, and it made me question my ability to trust other human beings, my judgement (after all, he was a ‘friend’) etc. I never spoke to him again, after retreiving my glasses the next day (by the way, they were in the back of his hatchback under the seat. I can’t see to the ground without them). I heard that he died of cancer when he was 20.
but if others want to persist in believing that a consent given after repeated assaults and ‘no’ is a consent freely given, - hey, don’t say no one advised you differently. Like I’ve said repeatedly:
at the first ‘no’: stop. Do not touch. do not ask. period. at worst you’ll miss out on a single sexual experience, at best you’ll avoid a rape charge/prison etc. That’s my advice, I’m sticking to it.
monster