Date rape occurs all over the country, this is a fact that we all know. But what I want to know is to what extend to you think a man or woman is accountable for his or her actions? Whose responsibility is it to prevent rape? Any answers are greatly appreciated.
Whoever is forcing the action is responsible. (This statement should cover the .0009% or so of cases where women are alleged to be raping men.)
I don’t care how much of a tease a person (woman) is, NO means NO.
It is the responsibility of the person who might be inclined to commit the act of rape to prevent rape by seeking professional therapy.
This question is probably better suited to GD, but here we go.
People are responsible for their own actions. For their own good people should try to avoid behavior or situations that are risky (like having a drink that you suspect may have been tampered with or getting blind drunk on a blind date), but someone who fails in this and is raped is not responsible for the rape. The rapist is the only one responsible for that.
I agree that “No” means “No,” but I must point out that the potential victim does bear the responsibility of communicating her objection so that a reasonable person would recognize it as a “No.”
The “reasonable person” can’t get the victim so drunk or drugged that the victim is unable to either express herself or unable to think clearly enough to make a yes/no decision. Lack of “no” does not always mean “yes”.
My take:
A man has an absolute responsibility not to rape or otherwise assault his date. Nothing can change that.
A woman is probably wise to assume some responsibility for her own safety, rather than simply relying on her date to fulfil his responsibility. Whether she does so or not, that doesn’t change the man’s responsibility one iota.
AerynSun,
I am probably old fashioned, but I believe in many “stupid” things, like a girl may be coquettish or whatever and say NO in a soft voice or any other ambigious way. I had more than one, and so far my instincts have not failed. I think that if I had any doubts, I’d err on a safe side. I know, that I and my life will not be diffrent if I would not have this particular girl now and if she really wants me, she’ll find a way to let me know. I do not want to be in trouble with the law and I want kisses and “call me tomorrow” from her, not nasty looks and words, even if she does not bring formal charges. And usually (not always, though), I want to have her again. If I think it’s going to be a one time thing, I won’t insist in the first place.
I agree with several of the opinions listed above… especially those of danimal and peaces… no means no… and a man has no place forcing himself on a woman… however i am also suspicous of women who put themselves in bad situations…
Im just wondering about the alcohol/drug issue… if two people, for argument sake… lets make it a man and a woman… get wasted at a party and wake up naked in bed the next day… is this rape (by itself, assuming no force and an equal level of wastedness … i believe it is in california) … and if so… is rape on just the man? or both of them… i dont see how it would be fair to hold only one of the responsible for their drunken actions…
note: i have never found myself in such a situation… knock on wood… but it just always intriged me…
To what extent is a man/woman accountable for their actions. As sexual intereaction between two human beings in a dating situation should be that of equals, they should both be equally accountable.
i.e. No means No, Stop means Stop, and thank God, Yes means YES.
And it is the responsibility of both parties to prevent rape, just as it is the responsibility of both parties to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and to prevent the spread of sexual disease.
i.e. Drinking. Don’t drink to the point of being drunk (however you wanna define that) with someone you’re not comfortable sleeping with. This applies to all involved parties. Personally, that’s one reason I never drink to the point of being seriously drunk. Besides… sex is lots more fun when you’re both sober and happy enthusiastic participants.
-Doug
I know that I have carried the burden of guilt for my own “date rape”. I did hate the boy who forced me afterward but at the same time blamed myself. After all I had been “making out” with him for a several weeks. I liked him. He was a good kisser. I just didn’t know that he would fight me, hold me down, hold his hand over my mouth to silence me and force himself on me. Did I deserve it, I don’t know. Was I incautious, I guess so. Did I place myself in a bad position, yeah. And back then (it was the 70s) we hadn’t heard of date rape yet. Was I ready to give up my virginity in such a way, no. But that’s what happened and I can’t do anything about it. Was he responsible too, yeah I guess he was. I just hope my own son doesn’t let his desires ever get the better of him that way.
Needs2know
:eek:
This is definitely a Great Debates question. Hold on a moment… There, that’s much better.
Now, then. Nobody ever deserves to be raped, date or no date, and “no” absolutely always means “no”.
There are very few women who knowingly put themselves into bad situations. Many get into bad situations because they are naive or too trusting of the men they are with. Others may allow themselves to get into bad situations because they have low self-esteem and either think they don’t care what happens to them or feel that they deserve to be abused.
I am so sorry to hear that you still feel guilty about this. It’s possible that you were incautious (not knowing the full details I can’t judge), but you were in no way deserving of or responsible for what happened to you.
NO, YOU DID NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED!!!
And nothing that you say in that paragraph suggests that you were really incautious, either. You want to keep the risk to a minimum, yes, but some risk is unavoidable when you date, and so far as I can tell from what you’ve written, you were just unlucky, not particularly incautious.
The son of a bitch who did that to you deserved your hatred.
Jesus, Needs, you are a brave chick to even type that.
You were never at fault!!! From what you wrote, I don’t think you were even incautious. Making out with a boy is MAKING OUT. Just because I kiss you does not mean I want to sleep with you.
You were horribly wronged, and I hate him now and I don’t even know him.
As to the drunk thing- may I say that if you can’t remember what you said (yes, no, oh baby or whatever), then you can’t cry rape. Have I ever had sex in a blackout, you ask? Yep. Was it consensual? I have NO IDEA. I may have said no, I may have said yes.
This has been said in other threads, but it bears repeating. Ladies- do not accept a drink from a stranger or casual aquaintance; do not leave your drink unattended ever; do not get wasted with people you barely know. Protect yourself.
A woman who has been raped is never EVER responsible. In fact, they are not even responsible for keeping themselves out of unsafe situations. A woman can walk naked in an dark ally singing about how much she likes sex and it is still wrong to rape her. Telling women to change their actions in order to avoid rape is akin to telling people not to fly on airplanes (or go to work or ride on buses) so that they don’t become the victem of a terrorist act. And that is what rape is, even date rape, it is an act of terrorism.
A good policy for all people is to get clear consent before having sex. A little disclaimer along the lines of “Are you okay if we take this all the way? You don’t have to if you don’t want to” can go a long way and keep you out of a lot of trouble.
Needs2know:
There is no way you were at fault, deserved that, asked for it, gave the wrong signals, or anything else of the like. And I know you can hear that a thousand times, but it won’t matter until you know that is true. And that is something you “needs2know”!
This is such a sad subject. And I say that because this kind of thing is much more common than people think. Of all my women friends, I would estimate that this has happened to at least 60% of them. The only way to help stop this is to make it known, bring it out into the light, by those who have survived it. I applaud you needs2know for mentioning it, even under tha anonomity (sp?) of the board.
It is the man’s responsiblity, I don’t care how much of a “tease” she is or what the previous relationship consisted of. I don’t care how much either of them had to drink or smoke or take or pop or whatever. If there is resistance, than the “no” should be implied.
I’ve seen the havoc it can play on a woman’s emotions, self esteem and even life style. Any man who does that should be . . . well, death isn’t good enough in my book.
Telling people not to fly airplanes or buses in certain countries that are deemed terrorism risks is a practice the U.S. government routinely engages in. And rightly so.
I am 100% in favor of informing women of any changes in their actions they can take to avoid being raped, just as I am in favor of tips to avoid your house being burgled or your store being robbed.
But we also have to recognize that there will always be some risk. All relationships involve risk. No matter how careful a woman is, she may be victimized anyway. It’s not her fault, it’s her victimizer’s fault. We can recognize that without telling people to ignore their own safety.
even - while i agree that no person ever has the right to rape another person… i find you opinion that people do not have the responsibility to keep themselves out of unsafe situations … well lets just say wrong seeing as this isnt the pit… if something has concequences that are forseeable and you do it anyway then there was some degree of negliance or understood risk on your part… that does not excuse those who may take advantage of you… but if i walk around unarmed with a clear trashbag full of money through central park at night… i should expect some visitor to promptly come along and relieve me of said bag-o-money… not that it would be his right…
fact: this is not a perfect world
fact: bad people do exsist and they do take advantage of others…
everyone has some level of responsibility to protect themselves and those they hold dear…