when does no mean no?

Brought up by this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=48990&pagenumber=1

Now: NO! I don?t what to do this! MEANS NO RAPE.

Many examples were posted in the posted link that Date Rape Shit is never OK. I agree with that.

But, one poster mentioned that an initial ?No? from a woman may mean ?not yet?.

Is this true, ?No? means ?No? everytime a guy hears it? Men might be from Mars, but I, and I imagine other guys, have experienced situations where ?No? meant ?maybe later?.

I?ve had situations where women said ?No? early in the night: ? I just met you? or ? we have no protection? and then they ended up on top of me, getting themselves off.

?No rape means no rape? but women play games with men sometimes, and this leads to miscommunication.

Perception can also be a problem. I remember one time as a freshman in college when my girlfriend told me to come over with a six-pack. I had to go to the ATM to get money and there was a girl finishing her withdraw when I got there. Turns out she was walking to the same apartment complex a half mile away as where my girlfriend lived (the liquor store was at the end of the walk). This girl had to spend almost 25 minutes with my big-ass following her across a dark campus?she was freaking because I ?followed her? from the ATM for almost half an hour. In reality, she was probably safer with me walking behind her because who would attack her with a big guy witness right behind her. But she didn?t know this and probably told her friends at her destination how this creepy guy had followed her.

Women who have been raped by degenerate fucks are victims; women who get shit-faced and fuck guys on the own terms and then cry ?date rape? thje next day make the guy a victim, (although a willing victim to the sex act).

Would this situation be fair?

WTF is up with all my grammacial notations being converted to ? marks?

I don’t know, but man I was confused as well.:slight_smile:

647, what keyboard do you use? Some foreign ones can cause problems because a string of bits that gives one symbol in your language might mean something different in the ASCII this board (and most of the rest of the Internet) uses. The rest of your characters seem fine.

Most of the ? should be apostrophes, hopefully that will make the OP more understandable. All I did was cut and paste my post from Word 2000 into the reply window.

…but sometimes “yes” means “I don’t want to offend you” and that’s when the trouble begins

Just to be on the safe side, 647, “no” should always mean “no”. Even if the girl is dry-humping your leg. After all, reacting to a “no” as if it were “well, maybe” or “I just need a little convincing” could get you into a world of trouble. A woman who plays games like that is a candidate to play much, much worse games.

If this were a perfect world, “no” would always mean “no”, and no woman (or man, for that matter) would ever be ambivalent with their message. Of course, the world isn’t perfect, so be careful and take the high road.

I think that there are a lot of situations in which “no” actually means “yes”. However, the fact that that woman that just said “no” to you might have actually meant “yes” no more gives you the right to have sex with her than the fact that that gun you’re holdingmight be unloaded gives you the right to point it at someone and shoot it. There’s a big difference between a woman maybe meaning “yes” and definately meaning “yes”. It may very well be that a woman that says “no” at the very beginning of the evening will say “yes” at the end. But until that happens, her “no” stands. I really don’t understand how someone can say “but I thought she wanted it”. If you really thought she meant “yes”, why did you hold her arms down? It’s not like violent rape is something you can “accidently” do.

When a girl says ‘no’ she means ‘maybe’, when she says ‘maybe’ she means ‘yes’, and when she says ‘yes’ she’s a slut.

Just kidding. 8^)

Treat “no” as if it really does mean no, no matter what. If she really means yes, what’s the worst that will happen… she’ll be upset because you aren’t putting the moves on? She deserves it for being deceitful. :wink:

Everyone, male and female alike, has the inalienable right, even if naked, previously flirtatious, and an hour deep into the process of playing with their partner’s erogenous parts, to get annoyed or disgusted and stalk off saying “fuck this shit”.

There’s nothing you can do that precludes you changing your mind.

“NO” always means NO, (at least for that moment). We have a very sexy lady at work who is considering a sexual harassment suit against the company. She used to date one of the supervisors and after their breakup, he told everyone how “easy” she was.

She is a very sweet, intelligent person and I dearly love her as a friend. She tends to wear tight revealing clothing and she’s a natural flirt, but does this give guys the right to corner her and cop a feel of her breast or try to stick their hands down her pants even after she tells them to back off? …I think not.

If you’ve got the hots for her, sure, let her know. If she tells you no, then let it be, maybe she’ll change her mind later. Don’t worry, if she does, she’ll let you know.

BTW ladies, this goes both ways. Just because I wear a tight pair of jeans that outlines my “bulge” (admittedly not very spectacular in my case), does not mean that I want you to molest me. If you’re interested, just be subtle and let me know. If the feeling is mutual, rest assured that I’ll get back with you.

When does “no” mean “NO!”??

Um… ALWAYS!!! :rolleyes:

[sup]*Unless “no” means “I’m tired, and I want to sleep!” In which case Ms.Astroboy’sfiancee and I are open for negotiations! :wink: [/sup]

Actually, “no” does not mean “no” when there is another safe word agreed upon in advance that really means no. That’s the only circumstance I can think of . . .

Did I just give up too much information?

Hehe…you a Dom or a Subbie? :wink:

Are you sure you’re willing to find out?

I hope the OP isn’t referring to my comment in a date rape thread, which it seems to be after I followed the link through. The comment would be taken entirely out of context. Here is that comment.

In no way did I imply no meant anything other than “no” in reality. I was merely trying to explain that there are times when, in hindsight, it seemed that no meant “yes.” I was hoping to point out that this was not the case. I hope I make myself clear: no means no always. Throughout that entire post I made that very clear, not just in the one quoted above.

However, if the OP wasn’t about me, then I’ve no reason to be here any more. Carry on, and ignore all of the above.

[sub]Tymp suddenly gets a whole lot more interesting…[/sub]

AHunter, I think you said it very well. At any time either partner wants the action to stop, it should stop, no matter what.

I can see the OP’s point about women giving mixed signals: “no, well…maybe,…yes! yes! yes! yes!”

There is a weird cultural thing that teaches women that nice girls shouldn’t be too eager for sex, and it breeds a whole bunch of unhealthy behaviors: not carrying protection and leaving it up to guys (after all, buying condoms would be an admission that you planned to have sex), saying no when you mean yes, having your “no’s” mistaken for yes. I think many women also have a hard time saying a final unequivocal no. We are raised to be such goddamned people pleasers that even in the midst of saying “No, don’t touch me there” we add a please and an apology because we still need to be liked.

Standard disclaimer: I’m not trying to generalize about all women - I suspect that most of my SDMB sisters are of the “NO! AND I MEAN IT” crowd, but 4 years of hanging around drunk girls at a Catholic university makes me think “hmmmm…there might be something to this.”

Guys, there is a good way to deal with this and have your revenge upon the wishy-washy women who make your head spin, while still remaining a nice guy. At the first “no” (however wimpy and insincere it may seem) - stop the action. Cold. If her no meant “yes” and she tries to continue, stop it again and say “I respect you, and when you say no, I have to respect it.” If her no’s really mean yes, you will have her asking you for sex, and there will be no ambiguity about it. If no means no, you will have done the right thing.

End of sermon.

Curse you, simulpost!

Well said, aynrandlover.

There’s a better way. There is no revenge (why would you want to get revenge on someone that you want to make love to?), she gets to preserve her nice girl image, you can avoid any hurt feelings from either of you, and you may even “get some.”

When she says no, tell her that you understand (even if you don’t), and ask her if it’s OK to go back to what you were doing. De-escalate the situation. Usually she will say that’s OK. Sometimes she’ll be so grateful that you respect her limits that she’ll jump on your weenie like a rabbit in heat.

This has worked for me several times.