Thanks, appreciate the encouragement and advice!
MeanJoe
Exactly - now you can really call it done and move on.
(but let us know if she calls back!!)
I’m glad that worked out for you, MeanJoe. And as other people have mentioned, you don’t look mean at all.
I have a semi-related question for you. I’ve noticed when guys post here asking for advice about dates, they’re always looking for signs that the other person is interested. They rarely (although you did) post if they’re interested. They just want to know what they should do based on the other person’s interest.
But if I’m on the other side (and I’m female, btw), if I had to think about someone wondering if I’m interested while I’m just out on a date, I’d have to second guess my every move which would be very exhausting.
If I’m out on a date, am I supposed to do something other than be out on the date? I must be missing something.
Oops, I didn’t get to leave a message yesterday, couldn’t remember my password to get onto the Dope from a foreign computer.
Your intuition is correct. If she does call you, it will because the guy that she wanted to call wasn’t home and she was bored-big time. Or, she wants a free night out on the town. Your chances at real romance with this one are, henceforth, zero.
For future reference, if a dame disses you (1. refuses to honor a date that she had with you, to go shopping…with her aunt and cousin??? and 2. Gives you an information blackout from Sat-Sunday after you call her to confirm) drop her like a live grenade.
You seem a bit inexperienced at how to recognize the ol’ heave-ho. The ‘have to go shopping w/ a relative’ bit is Brushoff 101.
Good luck in future.
I don’t think so, no. I honestly think that most women just need a couple of dates to figure out if they’re interested. Especially with online dating, you go in with a mental image of who you think this person will be, it takes a bit of getting-to-know to replace that with who they actually are.
I don’t know if men figure it out faster. Maybe they are more swayed by looks, maybe it’s that they tend to fall on the ‘pursuing’ side so they make a quick decision and stick to it. Maybe they are like women and just don’t tell me about it.
ETA: MeanJoe, I’m glad you called too.
That would be an interesting OP.
To clarify, she told me about the aunt/cousin thing when I asked her out originally and she agreed to the movie date for Sunday evening. It was not an out-of-the-blue comment on Sunday that she was out shopping. The aunt & cousin were visiting for the Thanksgiving holiday and weekend from out of state. I knew this at the time I asked her on the 3rd date.
As for the rest, yes the no return call on Saturday to confirm caused me to suspect that even though she agreed to the date when I asked in person three days earlier, something might be amiss. However, she responded to the text message on Sunday and said “yes, definitely” to the reschedule for another night. So in my defense although I agree that I am be relatively inexperienced in dating and the ol’ heave-ho signals; to me these are very mixed signals and I’m just a guy trying to read them accurately.
MeanJoe
I posted asking for advice because, as you said, I was trying to gain outside opinions on how to read this situation. I think the implicit part of that is I (or any guy posting a similar question) am interested otherwise why would I/we be asking the question? If I wasn’t interested, I’d not be putting effort into trying to understand the possible meaning of her actions. 
As for your question - I honestly do not know. You should be out on the date, being yourself of course. For me personally, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I’m terrible at reading interest from a woman. Whether that is when out socializing and someone I’ve just met is interested or if it is with someone I’ve asked out (thus, there is some interest as she’s agreed to the date) and we’re on the date or the date is over. Unless they have been very direct, which I’ve found most women are not, I just don’t catch those signals. I hate it. :smack:
MeanJoe
I can only speak for myself but based upon the two dates I was interested in getting to know her more. I had not made any decisions that this was definitely someone I want to be in a LTR with, no way near enough info at that point. I did see some potential:
[ul]
[li]She was physically attractive to me. Yes, that IS important to me. Judge me as you will. :p[/li][li]She was well educated: bachelors and graduate degree.[/li][li]She was well traveled and wanted to travel more with “someone special”.[/li][li]She was socially active and knew of and liked many of the same restaurants, entertainment, etc., as I do so I saw us meshing in terms of those things we like to do.[/li][li]Once she “opened up” she had a good sense of humor and she commented several times that she liked my sense of humor (this is a big one for me to be honest).[/li][/ul]
That’s just a quick list of impressions off of emails, phone convos, and the two dates. Did I make any decisions? Only that I liked what I’d seen so far and wanted to see some more of her to see what may develop.
I agree wholeheartedly, especially with online dating, of needing a few dates to figure out if they are interested and those expectations that get set in advance. I work in a sales organization and managing and setting expectations is critical to success. I can see the risks of online dating, that expectations begin to be set without those in-person interactions. That is why I try to move as quickly as possible away from emails, instant messaging, etc. to a face-to-face meeting.
MeanJoe
Perhaps you might benefit from asking more closed questions, with defined parameters - for example, “I had a good time tonight - would you like to go see a movie this Saturday?” Her answer leaves little doubt as to whether she’s interested or not (and if her answer is “maybe,” call it a “no”). Assume the lady in question is interested in you until she says no. If she’s someone who says yes to a date when she isn’t interested, that isn’t your problem.
Also, don’t be afraid to give the woman some feedback, too. It costs you nothing to say you had a good time, and you would like to see your date again (with a concrete date). Don’t worry about seeming over-eager; you’re on a dating site, she’s on a dating site - you’re both looking for love, and you both know it. I had any number of meet-and-greets that ended with, “Well, okay, see you around sometime.” If any of those guys had been interested in me, they sure didn’t let me know. Bottom line - if you want better communication, it doesn’t hurt to be a better communicator.
Have you ever seen the movie Marty? Whenever I think of guys struggling with dating, I think of that movie.
Hey, I’m in your corner, brother! I’m not trying to pick on you, or even get any amusement out of your situation. In general, the game of life/love/romance is treacherous and we hunters need all of the help we can get in tracking our game.
Just trying to help you refine your technique, and I meant that you were inexperienced in getting the boot. Inexperience is not a crime, nor a social faux pas, and I hope that I didn’t offend you in saying that. I just wanted to hilight that I have been tossed more times that I could care to admit, and I know, if not all of the signs, at least most that the Occidental world has to offer.
The fact that it was not an out of the blue comment shows that you were a goner at that point. She was already giving an alibi.
To help you read some signals, refer to the Golden Rule, with only a minor twist.
Look at your scenario, and reverse your situations: If you had a date with a babe, v. an opportunity to go shopping/watching UFC/car cruising/whatever with Uncle and cousin, who would you choose? The answer tells where one stands, and may be applied to where YOU stand.
That wasn’t too clear, but you get the idea. I hope.
If you hear from her, and you have nothing to do, and DO to take her out, at least do it where you can be seen by other babes. It’s good advertising for you! Seriously.
Best of wishes, and Merry Christmas.
greatshakes
Oh, btw, a "yes, definitely’ should mean yes, definitely, but we can see that since you were already in file 13 by this time, it’s meaning was more akin to ‘yeah, right’.
I think of Swingers. When you stop worrying about it, it happens. 
*adds *Swingers to my much watch list
Perhaps this is my problem, a failure to communicate clearly. This is how it went during the 2nd date…
Me: So what type of movies do you like?
Her: Blah, blah, blah, action movies, blah, blah.
Me: Have you seen the new Bond movie?
Her: No, but I really want to go see it. It looks awesome!
Fast forward 30 minutes or so…
Me: So to circle back to something you said earlier about the new Bond movie. I’ve been wanting to go see it myself. Do you want to go see it with me this Sunday?
Her: Definitely. I’m doing lunch with my aunt and cousin that day so I won’t be available until later in the evening.
Me: I have a lot of errands to run myself so late evening is what I had in mind.
Her: Great!
Me: Cool, I’ll look up movie times on Saturday and let you know the options and theater.
Closed ended questions with specific dates.
After 1st date, she communicated immediately she had a great time and I responded in kind and asked for the 2nd date. After 2nd date, when parting for the night also said that it was fun and looking forward to the movie.
Now, that said I am not trying to be defensive or argumentative with you. Your advice is dead-on solid and one of the few things I think I’m doing right. It is a good reminder for me though to hear it from someone else. Anyway, with that additional clarification I hope you can see why I am/was having trouble reading the situation and thus prompting my OP.
At this point it is water under the bridge. No return phone call to my voicemail about rescheduling is clear enough for even my thick skull.
MeanJoe
One of the greatest movies ever. Coincidently, it was on… Encore I think… last night and I was watching it. The character you are refering to is “Mike” and well… old MeanJoe here is Michael/Mike so you betcha some of the dialog was making its point a bit strongly from where I sat on the couch. Haha!
You’re so money!
MeanJoe
Sorry for the long response in advance.
Thanks for your response. Reading your post makes me feel like I’m not good at reading signals either even if I didn’t think I was before. The thing is that when you’re reading the signals, you’re giving off some yourself. I’ll play a little of the post back to you to tell you what I might be thinking if I were the female in this case.
Hmm. I’m more interested than he is. (unless she was very early) I was interested enough to be on time or early and he wasn’t.
He already doesn’t seem interested, so I’ll let him lead and see where it goes.
Well, I guess he’s really not interested. He’d rather talk to his friends than sit with me.
What should I do here? He’s not making a move. I can’t tell if he’s interested, so I’ll do a middle of the road kind of thing.
He’s asking me out. Maybe he’s interested.
Oh nice. Maybe he really is interested. This seems like a real date. Maybe he was just nervous before.
Bummer. I wanted to go dancing. I was hoping he’d make plans for another night or just go dancing earlier on this one. Well, I guess he’s not that interested.
He seems a little more interested in the James Bond movie than he does in just hanging out.
He’s still not making any moves. Another middle of the road gesture again.
OK, I can’t tell if he’s interested. Perhaps I should just give up.
Okay, maybe this is a little cynical, but every time you wondered if she was interested, you gave an indication that you weren’t, so now she’s wondering too. And it plays like this back and forth until it just gets too confusing and frustrating and one or the other gives up.
I’m definitely not speaking for her. I have no idea what she was thinking. I’m just saying that when one person is tentative and looking for signals, they’re giving off signals when they’re doing that, which makes the whole encounter confusing and not very authentic.
It’s like the whole quantum mechanics thing where the thing measured changes when it’s being observed. When you’re observing something like this, you’re affecting the thing being observed. That’s why if you really did have that “OMG, she’s perfect” feeling, you’d behave differently and so would she in response since you’d be acting in the moment and her response would change accordingly. In this scenario, it sounds like you’re the observer and not the player.
I think you’re right - you communicated fine, and she dropped the ball. Saying you will go on a date, then making an excuse, then never returning a call - that’s just chickenshit. Unless you find out later that her mom was admitted to the hospital for a life-threatening emergency and she is very apologetic about leaving you hanging, that is.
If that happens I think I’ll be entitled to “Go directly to 5th date sexy-sex”, yes? Oooh okay, fine perhaps not. 
MeanJoe