Dating Advice (Wow, this got long. Sorry!)

Hello Dopers,

Once again I turn to the wider community for advice! Haha.

I am trying to figure out my next step with someone I have gone out on two dates with. Here’s the story so far:

I met this person through eHarmony and we exchanged a few emails through that site. For those familiar with eHarmony, we did not do the Guided Communication. I told her that I’m more interested in moving things off-line as I do not think email and online (instant messaging) is a really good way to get to know someone. She agreed and actually volunteered her phone number and her personal email address. We continued to email, now outside of eHarmony and I did make an introductory phone call a couple days later which was short but the “ice breaker”. Most of our communication was during the day, via email, and I did ask her out on a first date - a wine tasting. She said it sounded like fun and we set the details, etc.

On the first date, I arrived at the restaurant for the wine tasting and she was already there. We talked for about 10 minutes at the bar as she finished her drink and then went into the wine tasting area and got out seats. Through the wine tasting, I felt like I was driving the conversation which I took as a sign she was not interested. However, when I engaged her in conversation she was very talkative and responsive but the conversation wasn’t flowing with that comfortable back-and-forth. The tasting lasted about 2 hours and at the end we each bought a few bottles of the wine. After checking out, she excused herself to the restroom. Coincidently an old co-worker and his wife (and another couple I did not know) were also at the wine tasting so I chatted with them while waiting on her to come back. They were sticking around to try a few hoppy beers and I asked if I could join them as I expected my date would make her apologies and head home. At this point I felt she had a good time but I couldn’t really tell if she was interested in me. So my date returned from the restroom and I let her know I was going to stay to catch up with a friend and being polite I told her she was welcome to join us (I expected her to take a pass). Instead she seemed rather happy about it and agreed to stay. We stayed for another 2 hours, splitting different style beers and during this part of the date the conversation opened up much more and she seemed far more engaged in conversation with me. At the end of the night, which was now approaching a 5 hour date, we said good byes and I got a hug. Not a kiss which I didn’t expect, nor a handshake-of-death, but a hug. Pah, middle of the road gesture which left me again having zero clue if she was interested in me.

On the drive home, not 10 minutes after leaving the date, she texted me that she had a great time. I took that as a positive sign and texted back that I did too and asked if there was interest in going out again. “Yes, absolutely interested!” was the response. Woo! :smiley:

So over the next few days we exchanged emails and a few text messages here and there. After about the 3rd day I brought back up the 2nd date and she again expressed interest. I called her that night and this time the phone conversation was a bit longer with a lot of laughing and joking back and forth. It was not a 30 minute conversation though, maybe 10-15 minutes and very light hearted and fun. Since this was coming up on the week of Thanksgiving and I told her that schedules were going to get hard but let me take a look at my calendar and she should do the same and we’ll touch base in a day or so. Two days later I sent her an email with some options, including post-Thanksgiving Dinner drinks. She responded that the post-Thanksgiving Dinner drinks sounded like a great idea and again we set the plans.

The second date was at a cool little bar in town and for 7pm on Thanksgiving night. We ended up staying until about 11pm again and the conversation was much better than on the first date. Lots of joking, more early date getting to know you questions, some conversation about dating, important things in relationships, what the other person is looking for, and even some brief conversations about recent relationships. Two things happened during this date that I felt were important. 1.) When setting up the date, I had joked that I may drag her to the 80’s night across the street for some dancing. During the date I asked if she had to work the next day and she said that unfortunately she did. I made another joke about how my evil plan was thrwarted now to get her out dancing that night. So a little later, she made a comment off-hand that she wished she didn’t have to work tomorrow as she’d really like to stay out. 2.) We were discussing movies at one point and she mentioned wanting to see the new James Bond flick. A little while later I circled back around to that bit of information and used it as a premise to ask her out on a third date. She said yes, and we agreed to go see it on Sunday. She did say that her aunt and cousin were in town and they have plans for lunch and shopping so it will probably have to be later in the evening. So… 2nd date and I’m feeling much better that there is interest in me, and I’m feeling more interest getting to know her more. We said our good byes as I walked her to her car again and I got another hug but this time was (unless it was my imagination) a bit longer and a bit closer of a hug.

On Saturday I called her to confirm the movie-date for Sunday and got her voicemail. I left a message but she did not return the call or text me that she got the message. On Sunday I had a ton of errands to do but I texted her around mid-afternoon to see if we were still on. She responded back that she had lunch with her aunt/cousin and now they are shopping and she doesn’t know how long she will be. I responded that maybe tonight may not be the best time and that we can do some other night. She replied “Yes, definitely. Sorry. We are still shopping.”. I responded something like “Have fun with the family and crazy crowds and to let me know sometime when you’re up for the movie”.

It has been 3 days. I’ve not texted, emailed, or called her - I figured the ball is in her court. If she is interested, she’ll contact me. Unfortunately, she has not.

So Wise Dopers… your advice please:

Is she just not that into me and I’ve been blown-off?

Should I reach out to her one more time?

If so, what should I say?
[li]One option is to take the approach that I’ve been so busy I haven’t had a chance to get back with her but let her know I’d still like to catch that movie.[/li][li]The other is to directly ask her if I’ve been blown off, of course in a very polite sorta way. Haha. [/ul] [/li]
Or should I just let it go and if she calls/emails/texts then great otherwise chalk it up as a couple good dates but nothing further?

Other advice/next steps?

One final note: We’ve only had 2 dates and I’m not in “Omigod she is perfect I think I’m falling for her” silly mode by any means. She is an incredibly attractive, bright woman and it seems so far that we have quite a few common interests. She is age appropriate to me, has a good career and eduation (BA & MBA), and has similar views on what is important in relationships, etc. So there is strong interest on my part in pursuing this further but although I might be disappointed to get blown off I’d not be crushed here either. A couple good dates, fun conversation, and no harm/no foul if it doesn’t go further.


My opinion? I think you’re way overthinking all this, looking for constant signs about whether she’s into you or not. Maybe that’s actually worrying her a little, who knows?

If you’re really into her (which is crucial isn’t it?) then why don’t you give her a ring, say you’d like to get to know her better and ask her where she sees things. Not romantic, not part of the ‘game’ but do you really want to be with someone who might be game-playing anyway?

On the phone! Call her, don’t actually give her a ring! :eek::smiley:

Get back in touch with her and offer a specific plan. “Hey, I know our movie plan for Sunday fell through, but I’d like to give it another try. Are you free Thursday [or whatever] night?”

Then the ball is in her court.

I’d call her. You have enough information that indicates she is interested in forging a preliminary relationship. Don’t forget, it’s the holidays and people have all kinds of weird crap going on. I think I’d set a specific activity to ask her about. “I’d like to go to another wine tasting at XXX on the 14th. Would you like to go?” That way it’s a solid yes or no. If she can’t make it, suggest another date. If she can’t make that, then the relationship may have breathed its last.

This has got to be the least complicated 12+ paragraph dating OP ever. No jealous exes. No weird signs. Neither of you is still in high school (I hope).

It sounds like she liked you off the bat and warmed up even more once she saw that you had real-life friends. Before that, unless she investigated you thoroughly, she had to take your word on most things and assume you weren’t putting on an act for your benefit. Also, I’ve never liked one-on-one dates early on in a relationship– really, it’s a lot of pressure, and often exhausting for both parties, even if there’s chemistry. The second date sounds like it went great. Then it just seems like she had a full day with the family and knew she’d probably fall asleep during the movie or not have time to get changed and freshened up. If she hasn’t contacted you by Friday yeah, she may be one of those people who needs extra prodding, even if they like someone. But really, if you like her and you’re not a stalker, who cares who called last?

What they said. You’re not planning the invasion of Normandy here. If you want to call her, call her. Have a specific night to suggest, and just do it. Since she hasn’t given you any negative signals, assume the positive.

Sounds to me like she’s into you, but not silly overboard into you, which is perfect right now, right? As long as you’re not looking for Disney love you can enjoy her company while you have it, and hopefully more will blossom down the line.

Fair warning: I’m crap at dating advice. So take this with a grain of salt.

I used to date through eHarmony as well. Honestly, your situation sounds like all but one of the dating scenarios I went through on that site, right down to the “hug and no kiss” end. And all but one ended in “the ball is in her court, and she took that ball and went home” (the other one, we both went home).

Maybe I’m overthinking this too, but I think that behavior is endemic to eHarmony. The site does rather pitch itself as ideal for women (and men to some extent) who are a little shy and aren’t that good at being direct with people. The whole process of sending canned questions, canned responses, canned e-mail to each other before you can actually talk openly is very attractive to that type of person. These are the sort of people who are more likely to send what they see as very negative signals–but the kind of signals that are easily misinterpreted–but when those don’t have the desired effect, they just go silent.

Granted, that might not be the case here. But having been through “the silent treatment” more than once, I’ve just got that sinking feeling.

Don’t ask if she’s blowing you off. Not even politely. Not even jokingly.
With 99% certainty, one of two things will happen

  1. She’s not been blowing you off; she’s truly been busy. Then she sees you getting impatient and needy and rethinks the need to deal with someone like that this early in a relationship.
  2. She IS blowing you off and is too chickenshit to tell you. But now you’ve given her the perfect out. “Gosh no,” she lies. “I’ve just been super swamped. But thanks for assuming the worst. You know, I don’t have time to deal with people this impatient and demanding. Kthxbye.”

If you want to wait for her to make a move, wait. If you want to call her up, call her up. But no one ever goes for that “gotcha journalism” where they say “ayup, you caught me. I WAS blowing you off. Wasn’t that fun?”


I too was on eHarmony - and am a woman and I say.

CALL HER. In fact, I think knead2know (along with being incredibly handsome) is dead on with his advice.

It’s perfectly legit, casual, and let’s her state her case one way or another.
If she says yes to the movie: Hurray! You didn’t let the semantics of “who should call who” get in the way.

If she says no, but suggests an alternative: Hurray! May she heard some of the unfortunate reviews about it (which I poo-poo fwiw) and is just not in to that movie. Move forward with the alternatives and have fun!

If she says no to the movie and doesn’t suggest an alternative: Hurray! You are no longer left wondering if she’s interested: she isn’t interested enough. Now you can move on to someone even more fabulouser and deserving of your MeanJoe uberness.

Good luck! Keep us posted!!

(my off-hand, unsolicited advice: Try OkCupid. It’s free, and kneadtoknow and I met on it over 8 months ago - hurray!!)

Around this time of the year, people are usually harried. They are catching up with family and friends, shopping, cooking, parties, etc. I wouldn’t say she’s blowing you off or not into you from the information you’re providing.

I do think you should call her and ask her if she would like to see the movie you’d mentioned.

She likes you and got swept up into the whole Thanksgiving thing and probably is trying to catch up at work and maybe wondering if she has let it go too long to call you.

Just call her. Worst she can do is tell you to beat it.

I’d txt her with a specific date-question (like asking if Thursday would work or whatever); like others have said, that will mean the ball is in her court. November/December are always crazy-busy for most people, so I’d cut her some slack.

And it sounds like she was having fun, but the wine tasting was something she was perhaps a bit uncomfortable with. Not that she didn’t enjoy it, but if it seems a bit more formal than she’s used to, that would explain her being a bit stiff. Once you hung out with others for a more casual beer tasting, she could probably relax and be in a more familiar/comfortable setting.

I would try not to over-think it. One mistake I made was that the more I seemed to get the other person interested, the more it screwed me up because I was progressively more bent on avoiding any mistakes rather than being myself.

I’d say yes.

Definitely not

[quote=“MeanJoe, post:1, topic:475509”]

[li]One option is to take the approach that I’ve been so busy I haven’t had a chance to get back with her but let her know I’d still like to catch that movie.[/li][li]The other is to directly ask her if I’ve been blown off, of course in a very polite sorta way. Haha. [/li][/QUOTE]

Don’t bother with either.


Keep dating. Just go out and have fun, don’t take anything too serious.

ETA: I’ve been for dating for a few months and these answers are the result of my experiences in that time. There’s a lot of cool, smart, attractive people out there interested in you. There’s nothing wrong with going out with all of them before making a final decision.



Looks like somebody’ll be getting a little re-education here pretty soonly.

Lord, sometimes it’s like she’s begging me to spank her.

Umm - uh - it’s like this, see. I originally had just typed **k2k **- then realized that was an abbreviation from a previous thread and might not be clear- so I went back and elongated back but missed the “2” to “to” conversion.

Mea culpa?

that’s not the only thing I beg for. Fortunately, you never make me beg long.

This should be fun to milk for a while.


Slip her the sausage! :smiley:

To me, it sounds like she’s into you, but she’s waiting for you to take initiative. Why didn’t you kiss her first anyway? You don’t have to wait for the end of the date. There are no hard and fast rules, but if I’ve had two dates without a kiss, well, it makes me think either she’s not into me or that she’s shy.

One thing I’ve learned is to incorporate light touching into dating. The goal is that by the time you kiss, the kiss itself is no big deal. If she’s into you, she will reciprocate your light touches during the date. By ‘light touch’ I mean like making a joke and doing the arm-punch thing, or rubbing her foot into hers very briefly.

One trick I do if I’m sure the girl is into me is I ask her “how big is your hand? I bet mine is larger.” While you’re matching palms, then you grasp her hand like you’re a couple. I’ve also heard that the Keno palm game can be used very effectively.

Basically, the point is that there should never be a “omg should I kiss her?” moment if you do these things. The kiss should come as a natural progression to the other parts of the date.

Obviously the situation has 1000 more factors than the no-kiss only hug thing, but there you go.

I would wait until the 3rd date or so for this unless there’s major chemistry. The first few dates should be low pressure and touching is stressful if you’re already both nervous (and it sounds like she was).

Oh, ick, no! Open the door for her and put your hand lightly on her back or let your fingers touch at the table, no foot rubbing! And arm punching is for buddies or people already in relationships. NOT for the initial wooing stages.

What is the Keno palm game? This sounds like high school flirting.

Okay, that was funny :stuck_out_tongue: