Do I call back a second time?

Hopefully this is in the right forum.

Another silly dating question from a person you don’t know.

I had the opportunity to go out on a date with an interesting lady in early-August. I felt this first date went very well. There was plenty of common ground, in both interests, education, outlooks, love of travel, food etc. and I believe there was chemistry as well.

At the end I asked for a second date when she returned from a 2-week holiday and received “I would like that” followed by a hug. Two and half weeks later I make a call, suggesting the upcoming weekend as a potential date. We chat for about 10 minutes and she says that this weekend is probably not good as she is meeting with a client, but possibly next weekend and that she would call me.
Immediately this “I’ll call you” response is a red-flag for me and implies that she is not longer interested and is looking for an easy way out. Fair enough…this has happened before and I leave the situation at that and move on. (on an advice note, if you are going to shoot down a guy, do it on the first date).

Here is the twist for me though…I live in an place that has extremely limited dating options and the phrase “plenty of fish in the sea” totally doesn’t apply to this town. It’s an oil/gas economy, dominated by men and most of the women I’ve met haven’t impressed me in terms of worldliness, education, thoughts, converstation etc. Opportunities are scarce and far between…almost frighteningly so. While my career is doing well here, it is a socially isolated existence (hence my online plea).

I suppose my question is…do I risk being a creep and call her again? I did receive the “I’ll call you” line. I don’t want to badger her after the fact. It’s not me. However, maybe I’m reading it wrong? I really felt this had potential and part of me says that I shouldn’t give up that easily. There is an attitude among some that implies that sometimes one does need to be a bit aggressive to win at the dating game. That one has got to stick their neck out. I’m a bit of a lazy dater, having previously lived in areas with plenty of options, and when one door closed, it didn’t take long for another to open. To pursue a bit harder is uncharted territory for me.


How about a “I got tickets to ‘x’ or saw an ad for such-and-such upcoming event, and wondered if you’d like to join me?” That way, it’s less like nagging, more like you’ve been thinking about her and thought she’d enjoy a certain event with a set time/place. As a woman, I’d find that completely not weird or pushy.

If she says no or gives a vague “maybe another time,” don’t call again. Either she doesn’t want to go with you, or the timing is bad.

Relax a little, would you?

No one I know would consider you a creep for calling twice, or calling when she said she’d ‘call you’.

The worst thing that can happen is she will put you off again, probably with a similar excuse and a similar, ‘I’ll call you!’ Then, you’ll know won’t you?

You should call her up and say you’re still thinking about her, really enjoyed her company and would like to see her again. Especially since your town doesn’t present a lot of opportunities, as you say.

Shit happens, in people’s lives all the time. Maybe her Dad’s sick, maybe she lost her job, maybe her dog was run over by a car. I can see not wanting to lay that on a relative stranger.

You got nothing to lose here, just do it!

I like **Lacunae Matata **'s advice. I did that once, got an acceptance and then got stood up for the magic show that I purchased tickets to see. I found another person to go to the show with at the last minute, but it really cleared up whether the first person was interested in me.

Just go for it. The boyfriends I’ve had in my adulthood were ones who tried a little harder. I’m not a hard to get type - I just apparently need convincing sometimes. :wink:

Mpsims -> imho

Go for it, but I think you’re right in interpreting her first blow off as non-interest. The lack of return phone call added to the hug at the end of your first date is what’s tipping me off. But there’s only one way to find out for sure, so call her and let us know how it turns out.

My friend was in a similar situation, with having good dates/conversations interspersed amongst weeks of “I’ll call you later” and a lot of wondering what was going on. In the end, it turned out the guy’s mother was in hospital with complications related to cancer, making it really hard for him to plan or commit to anything. They both worked shift work, and it just wasn’t a good time. Recently, his mother’s been doing a lot better, and they now see each other nearly every day (as their work schedules allow) and it’s developing into a really good relationship.

Sometimes “Oh, I can’t that day, I’m busy” really is just that. Call her a second time. You have nothing to lose.

I’ve found persistence can be a good thing, in moderation. A second call doesn’t make you a “creep”, and at worst, you’re back where you started.

I’d try not to think too much into it, as I’ve found my mind/imagination can be my own worst enemy, at times. If you’d like to go out with her again, then relax and initiate things by making the call.

I had a situation not terribly unlike the OP. I dated a girl a couple times a few months ago and we definitely hit it off, but she had a sudden death in the family and soon thereafter had a vacation that she had planned before we’d met. Despite how well we initially clicked, that two and a half weeks or so that she was gone and dealing with all that emotional stuff just killed the chemistry and it fizzled. So, even if it did go well and she really did want to see the OP again after the first date, two weeks may just have been too much.

That said, I don’t think a follow up call is bad at all. Maybe something came up or maybe she forgot she said she’d call you and was waiting for you to call instead or maybe she sucks at the dating game too and is too shy to call or playing hard to get or something. The point is, there are other reasonable possibilities that she didn’t call but is still interested, so there’s no point to assume the worst. I’ve missed out on several great potentials from misinterpretting ambiguous or unintended signals negatively.

So, in this case, your insticts are probably right, but a second call isn’t creepy by any reasonable standard and if she’s not interested she’ll either blow you off or not pick up and then not respond to your message. And, even if she interprets it as creepy, then she wasn’t interested anyway and her standards of creepiness are off anyway, so what does it matter?

That said, if you get another clear non-interested sign, just let it go. You will end up in creep territory if you keep calling her after that.

One more call won’t make you creepy. You’ll probably get shot down but it’s worth a try. Lacunae Matata had a good idea. It would be better and less creepy if there is a specific event that she might like to attend with you. Just don’t buy the tickets unless she gives you a solid yes.

Regardless of the impact of a second call, do you really want to be with someone who says she’ll call and doesn’t? Honestly, if she likes you, it’s really unlikely she’d just forget to do something like that.

I think the chances are pretty small this going anywhere (“I’m meeting with a client” Really? For the whole weekend including Saturday and Friday nights?), but it’s not overly creepy to contact her once more.

If she declines another date but in a way where you really can’t tell whether she’s not interested, then go ahead and apologize for your inability to pick up hints and your need to be blunt, then politely ask whether she really wants to go on another romantic date with you. This assumes you can hear her say ‘no’ without dissolving into tears or rage, of course.

But assuming that’s true, I think asking almost never hurts anything. Even in the negative case, it may even help lead to you two hanging out non-romantically. Which of course isn’t as good as romance, but it sounds like any kind of friendship is at a premium in your location right now.

As a lifelong bachelor I’ve had this happen a few times. I’d say 3/4 of the time the woman is no longer interested, but 1/4 of the time the woman is still interested but just busy as hell or something and some persistence can pay off.

It’s true that it’s impossible to tell which quadrant your lady friend is in, and if she’s not interested any further attempts to contact may make her think even less of you–but in that scenario she had already decided she didn’t want to see you again anyway, so it really doesn’t hurt you any. Being afraid of that outcome means the 1/4 of the time the woman is still interested but just busy schedule wise you miss out on the chance of something more by not pursuing it.

I’m not a particularly attractive guy, but I will say I’ve been able to get regular enough female attention that I’ve never felt “lacking” despite having not been married or anything in my 50+ years on the earth. The most important thing I’ve found is that vanity has no real place in the dating game. If you’re worried about looking stupid you’re really limiting yourself, if you want to have good successes sometimes you need to basically do things that might make you seem a fool to a woman who wasn’t interested in you for various things out of your control anyway. Attraction is a hard to define thing, and a lot of it is based on things you have no control over so I’d never worry about making myself look bad before a woman, if she’s interested then she’s interested and if not then I’m not hurting anything by “verifying” it.

Lots of women just don’t have the spine for it. I have literally told women before, “I’m not a little kid, if you’re not interested just say you aren’t and I’ll move on without a second thought, but I’m not the best at reading clues so if you’re interested you need to either let me know or I’ll assume you aren’t.” Most of them still can’t just be straight in their response, they dither around and do everything to avoid just saying “I’m not really interested.” As a man the few times a woman has said that I have actually felt great and come off generally pleased that she was upfront and honest with me. Dunno why but honest rejection just hurts way less than the games that some people play to avoid turning someone down.

I disagree with this advice. It would be better if the OP just take the hint that she’s just not into him and move on. It’s obvious that he sees the signs and knows what they mean; he’s just in denial about it due to the fear of missing out on the 1 in a 1000 chance that she really has been too busy with a client to call. The way I see it, if the lady wants to express herself explictly, she’ll do so via her own volition. Pushing it out of her is what creeps do.

All the OP needs to do is broadcast one more signal of interest from his side and if it’s rejected, take that as all the information he needs to know. Lacunae’s advice is good.

That’s strange, because you once said:

"You wonder why a lot of women choose not to be straight, direct, and explicit. The ambiguity of their responses confuses you.

But why don’t you just ask them for clarification? “Are you interested in me?” “Do you think I’m attractive?” “When you say you can’t make it, does that mean you don’t want to see me or that you really can’t make it?”

If a guy doesn’t express his confusion, how are women supposed to know? Are they supposed to be able to read your mind? If you never ask these questions, is it really her fault that you’re confused?"

Remember that for her, the dating odds run the other way. She may be letting you drift because she’s in a place that offers her lots of options.

I don’t think the guy is really confused. He’s interpreted the signals correctly; he’s just holding out hope that they don’t mean what he thinks they do. So prodding her to spell out the truth to him in block letters, even after she’s sent him multiple signs of disinterest, accomplishes nothing except makes him look like a creep who is overly invested in a one-date encounter.

If he asks her out again and once again she turns him down because of a “client”, then I don’t know why he would need to pick at the issue any more with requests to speak bluntly. Do you? There is not any ambiguity to decode if the answer is never “yes”.

I say go for it. A second call is nowhere near creepy, and you don’t really have anything to lose. One woman’s opinion.