DC Comics Crisis Fallout Revisited

The basic idea is that (pre-crisis) there were an infinite number of parallel Earths, all existing in the same time and place, but in different dimensions.

Originally, the major characters each existed in their own separate universe. you’d never see Superman or Batman or the Flash dropping in on each other. In the early forties, National Comics (which later became DC) bought out several smaller companies. They decided to combine all of the characters they had that didn’t have their own book and make them a team, which became the Justice Society. It included the Flash, Hawkman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and a bunch of lesser heroes, usually magicians and costumed heroes. Basically everyone but Batman and Superman. This time from the late 30’s to roughly 1950 is the golden age.

Superhero comics fell apart in the early fifties, and really only the big two (Batman and Superman) were still making money. In 1958, a new Flash was introduced (beginning the silver age). A few years later, he met up with the original Flash from the 40’s. To explain this, the writer decided there was a second earth (Earth 2), and it was on this Earth that the golden age heroes lived. DC proceeded to introduce new, updated versions of its more popular characters, Hawkman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, etc. These characters were united into a Justice Society like team called the Justice League. With the concept of a second Earth already established, it wasn’t long until someone decided to team the Earth 1 Justice League with the Earth 2 Justice Society. There was for years a yearly crossover teaming the Justice Society and Justice League, which you can read in the “Crisis on Multiple Earths” trade paperbacks.

This created some continuity problems at the time. Superman and Batman had an unbroken continuity from the golden age through the silver age, yet seemed to have separate Earth 2 and Earth 1 characters, and some other characters, most notably Hawkman, were too easily confused as the silver age variant wasn’t sufficiently different from the golden age original. DC wasn’t exactly overly continuity conscious at the time, so such matters were left to the writers of the individual books to handle as they pleased.

Over time, a few other parallel universes popped up. Earth 3 had no superheroes, only evil versions of the Justice League. Fawcett had been bought out, creating an Earth S (for Shazam), that contained the Shazam family and their attendant villains. There were rare crossovers, but these were kept more or less separate.

Problems with continuity became worse as the years went by. The Earth 1 heroes had a sliding past history–their origins and early history happening just over “10 years ago”, and progressing very slowly. This means that, for example, in 1970, Superman, then not quite 30, had been around since about 1960. Now, in 2004, Superman is a bit older, in perhaps his late 30’s, so he’s been around since the late 80’s or so. The origin years slide forward constantly for these heroes. This works fine for the Earth 1 heroes, but the Justice Society has to have been active in the 40’s; they’re tied to the events of World War 2.

As we entered the 80’s this would put the Earth 2 heroes into their 60’s, while the veterans on Earth one stayed roughly 30. Real time aging on Earth 2 and comic time aging on Earth 1 created some discontinuity issues, which along with the proliferation of new parallel earths created by the purchase of other companies’ characters, writers overusing the concept, and confusion over the continuity of characters such as Superman, Batman, and Hawkman, created the need to clean things up. In addition, the bigwigs decided that it would be helpful to bring certain characters all into the main universe to make stories with them more accessible, the Shazam characters in particular, along with some heroes from Chalton that had been bought earlier.

This prompted the Crisis on Infinite Earths. The idea was to compress everyone into one universe, and take the opportuinity to restart some characters. Exactly how this was to be done, nobody could agree on, even after it was done.

Superman got a new origin. A miniseries explained his new background, after which he started about 5 years into his career. He was depowered, and all of the other Kryptonians were sent packing. Wonder Woman was sent back in time to before she existed, and she was started again from scratch. Flash was killed, and Kid Flash (who had been inactive due to a disease that killed him when he used his powers) had his powers restored, but in a much lesser form than the former Flash.

So just with those three, we have three different approaches: Start from scratch (Wonder Woman), reset the origin, but restart stories a few years in (Superman), and restart with a new character (Flash).

Because of this, and other problems, continuity was just as screwed up afterwards as it was before. They’ve tried to fix it a few times since, and many of the changes made are slowly being undone. Superman is being joined by other Kryptonians, Flash has light speed again, parallel universes have been reintroduced, and most of the characters have been seen in Elseworlds stories set in some of these parallel universes.

If you want multiple universes, Marvel’s gone the opposite direction. They regularly introduce new universes whenever it fits their needs. They had a regular series called What If, in which an interdimensional being called the Watcher would look at other universes and tell stories about how things would have turned out if certain events had gone differently, say if Uncle Ben hadn’t been killed. The conceit was that these weren’t “imaginary stories” like DC told, these actually happened, just in a parallel universe. The results were almost always disastrous for the characters.

In the late 80’s or early 90’s, one of the superteams, Excaliber, got lost and went dimension hopping through alternate realities. This was played mostly for laughs.

In 1996, they decided to restart many of their characters. They sent all of their characters other than the X-Men (and related) and Spider-Man into a new universe where they got new, modern origins, and clean slate to restart (this was called Heroes Reborn). It was so bad an idea, and handled so badly, that they abandoned it in a year, and brought everybody back (Heroes Return). It was very reminiscent of the Coke/New Coke/Coke Classic debacle in the 80’s.

All of the core books got a 2099 book which was a shared possible future. This fared no better than the Heroes reborn books and is thankfully no longer with us.

A few years later, they tried again, this time restarting just one character, Spider-Man, in a new universe of his own–Ultimate–while keeping the original in the core Marvel universe. Because they didn’t mess with the already existing Spider-Man, and because the relaunch was done much better, it worked better than they had hoped. Soon, they had X-Men and an amped-up version of the Avengers, and recently, the Fantastic Four.

Chris Claremont was given free reign a few years ago to take characters he’d created, and tell new stories with them, which essentially created a new universe just for that book (Extreme X-Men).

At about the same time, a new X-Team consisting of fringe characters, and characters from possible alternate futures was created and sent parallel world hopping much like in Excaliber, but this time played seriously (Exiles).

One issue of What If toyed with the idea of Spider-Man having a daughter, and the idea was so popular that they created a new series based on the idea, essentially another universe created to fit the one book.

Most recently, they’ve restarted several of their core characters under the label Marvel Age, which is retelling the early stories of the original characters. As they are reset in a modern time, I don’t know quite whether these are intended to be a separate universe or just a way to get new readers caught up on the ancient history of the characters. It doesn’t really work for the second purpose, and Spider-Man’s early stories have already been retold in a more modern setting once (In Spider-Man: Chapter One), so I’m treating this as a new universe of it’s own.

So counting all those, Marvel has about 819 different universes.

Its really freaky when I can understand those 819 (give or take five: a crunchy cookie to the first person to tell me where I got that joke from :wink: ) Marvel universes better than the gordian knot of DC.

Re : Crime Syndicate - as previously indicate the modern Crime Syndicate exist on the Earth of the Anti-Matter Universe … which is not a Hypertime concept. The Crisis technically collapsed the multiverse into two universes… one matter, one anti-matter. The reason the Syndicate ‘survived’ being enveloped by the anti-matter is that the re-boot of the cosmos that occurred when the Spectre battled the Anti-Monitor at the dawn of time re-established them.

Zero Hour : DC did another mega crossover called Zero Hour in which history was tweaked yet again. Further changes got worked in.

dangergene : That Superboy was indeed from Earth Prime. I have a few of the attendant books that discuss his arrival there, but the gist of it, if I recall correctly, is just that Earth Prime’s superheroic age was just beginning as the Crisis started.

Possible Spoilers, but not important ones:
As for the End of the Crisis, with the Golden Age Superman, etc … yes. The Golden Age Superman does pop up once again. We find out where Alex took him. Read the Kingdom miniseries.

But even this is a cop-out. The implication was clearly that death the third, energy-ball incarnation of the Anti-Monitor in the black star was so powerful that waves of energy destroyed the anti-matter universe.

I remember a childhood friend of mine showing the classic “What If” issue, where it “What if the watcher was a stand-up commedian?”, featuring various shorts like “What if everyone who had ever been an Avenger was still an Avenger?” Someone calls “Avengers Assemble!” to rescue a kitten and about 75 people/things show up.

Hmmm. It might give one that impression, but I got the idea it was just the extremely large local area there.

Also, Zero Hour may have reformatted those events, we still have very little idea how the revised Crisis went down, after it’s own changes and Zero Hour’s… I mean, if Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and the Golden Age Superman never existed from the perspective of the modern DCU, what the heck do they remember happening?

Both Volumes of What If? did a humor issue… and oddly, in both cases, it was issue #34. I have both… I was a big fan of What If?.

A couple of comments:

The anti-matter universe was always supposed to have survived (despite the fact that I agree, it looked like it didn’t): without Qward, there wouldn’t have been Weaponers to make Sinestro’s ring for him. IIRC, in the post Zero-Hour Crisis what Chrona’s experiment did was create the anti-matter universe. (The Niven/Byrne “Chrona introduced entropy” thingie pretty much got forgotten as soon as it came out)

The Crime Syndicate was originally Earth-3, a parallel world. After the Crisis, the Crime Syndicate was made up of Qwardians for one issue of Justice League Quarterly. Finally, in Grant Morrison’s “Earth-Two” graphic novel, they ditched the concept of the Qwardian Crime Syndicate and they’re now a parallel world again. How this jibes with DC’s “THERE WILL NEVER BE A MULTIVERSE AGAIN, dammit!” rule is anyone’s guess. Since the parallel world Crime Syndicate has shown up since, they’re currently the version that’s still in continuity.

Regarding the “Where did the Earth-2 Superman Go?” question, Marv Wolfman has explicitly stated that he was told half-way through Crisis that the “Big Five” Golden Age heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Green Arrow—the only ones to have stories published continuously from Golden to Silver Age) were to be erased and forgotten. Wolfman agreed to snuff (or undo) the others, but point-blank refused to kill off the Golden Age Superman. Apparently, the compromise reached was that the GA Superman (along with some leftover characters like the Superboy of Earth-Prime) would go to heaven and live happily ever after. IMO, bringing back the Earth-2 Superman for his cameo in The Kingdom was a mistake–either bring him back for real or leave him alone.

Fenris

They’re from the Earth in the Anti-Matter Universe. Two universes existing opposite one another does not a multiverse make. :wink: Or at least, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

I thought it was a nice nod. I’d always wondered if they’d ever reveal where he ended up, and greatly appreciated the reference. It’s just nice to know he’s still out there, in a way. :slight_smile:

The Rec.Arts.Comics.DC.Universe Frequently Asked Questions List is a good place to start for basic handholds on the many contradictions of the DC universe. It hasn’t been updated since 1996, though.

I’ve read some very bitter remarks from Marv Wolfman about what DC did after he thought he had put the worlds into some sort of order. Can’t seem to find it on the Net, unfortunately.

The Golden Age Wonder Woman wasn’t killed either, only her Earth-1 counterpart was.

The Earth-2 WW ascended to Olympus with her husband, General Steve Trevor.

It really has never been attended to and seemingly has been ignored, but she and Steve should be there somewhere.

I assumed that when the timeline finishing re-writing itself, she and Stevey vanished.

I thought(and still think) that the realm of Gods is not affected, but I could be wrong.

And that’s GENERAL TREVOR to you, MAGGOT!

:wink:

Hm…I just looked at it, and you’re right. The Crime Syndicate’s Luthor expressly states that he’s penetrated the matter/anti-matter membrane. I thought there were three universes (Anti-Matter (Qward), Matter (us) and Matter (Crime Syndicate) ). Three universes do a multiverse make! :slight_smile: But you’re right: two don’t.

This violates all sorts of continuity (despite one reference to the contrary during Crisis (where they incorrectly said Qward was the counterpart of Oa), Qward has always been the anti-matter counterpart of Earth. And the “Earth-Two” Crime Syndicate world is not Qward (they don’t have big doofy looking eyes, for one :smiley: )

Fenris

So we’ve established that there is a Matter and an Anti-matter universe, and that Hypertime has created a nigh-infinite number of variant universes that explicitly means that all Elseworlds titles are now valid parts of the hyperverse continuity.

BUT…

In recent Legion issues Superboy has turned up in the future, and was fighting time-displaced versions of Clark Kent (pre superman), Barda, Firestorm, Orion, etc.

It was said somewhere that the Superboy who is now hanging out with LSH is NOT the same Superboy who is hanging out with the Teen Titans. So, is the LSH Superboy displaced chronally or dimensionally? or… what!!!

And when was it established that Superboy’s name is Kon El? Was this an honourary title given by Kal?

(I’m loving this damn thread, I spent many hours last night explaining the complexities of the DCU to a Marvel Zombie whose only DC experience was Firestorm).

(Oh, minor addendum, yippee! DC Direct is releasing a Firestorm figure middle of this year).

I’m all for it as long as Krypto stays around…

It gets weird. There was a character who sure seemed to be the “Clark Kent of Earth Prime”-type character running around. At the same time, there is also the Superboy from Teen Titans (who, when he gets around the Legion turns into a moron—I’m not thrilled with this) running around. He’s currently time-lost and stuck.

Yes. It was in Superboy’s book but I don’t remember which issue. Somewhere after issue 50 though, IIRC

Beware: they’re coming up with a new “relevant” Firestorm. I got my fingers crossed but I’m dubious.

yeah, I’m very worried about this. Especially when there was some initial excitement in sections of the geek world that we might get Ronnie and the Professor back as Firestorm (especially after all the ‘elemental’ kerfuffle years back), then that excitement was doused when DC announcemed someone else ‘getting the Firestorm powers’. Apparently it’s a teenager, which I’m scared means it’ll be a DC ‘relevant’ teenager (to paraphrase your words Fenris) instread of a traditional DC teenager (a la Teen Titans, etc).

And we know Ronnie will turn up at some time, but does this mean the original Firestorm is lost for good?

sigh

My feeling was the Clark taken from time by Darkseid was our normal Superman Clark, but it was back in his HighSchool days, before he’d become Supes (which then makes me wonder how he had powers, because High School Clark was a pale shaodw of his current self). But my understanding of the LSH Superboy was that he was NOT the same Superboy as the TT Superboy phew.

However, I could be wrong.

I am glad to see him in the traditional Superboy togs though. I’m hoping the returned Kara Zor-El will get to wear the traditional Supergirl togs, with the red skirt and the headband! I loved that era! goofy grin.

And I agree, the goofiness Superboy exhibits with the Titans is not much fun, although the latest issue was mildly amusing, but would have been more so if Matter-Eater Lad had been there somehow!

I wuz gonna quibble that the “headband” look wasn’t the “classic” look–the original with the reversable red/blue skirt–was the “classic”.

Then I realized that the “headband”/Flashdance look was over 20 years ago. Which counts as “classic”.

Which made me feel old.

:stuck_out_tongue: