DC-The New 52. It's been almost 2 years--thoughts? Also, what about Marvel's new stuff

Cafe Society
1

For me, it broke my comic reading addiction. I’ve been reading since 1975-ish, and for the first time ever, have stopped going to the comic store weekly (short of vacations/illnesses/family stuff,etc).

To me, the New 52 introduced generally unlikable versions of characters I used to be interested in, the new directions seemed editorially mandated* rather than flowing organically out of the characters, I’m finding myself less and less interested.

The only DC book I’m reading, not that Johns is off GL is Legion and when that’s done, I’m done with DC at least until the next reboot.

I’m having the same problem to a much lesser degree at Marvel. I love Waid’s Hulk and Daredevil, but stuff like “Snuff the Young Avengers while trying to cash in on the Hunger Games by some guy who’s never actually y’know, created any characters, just breaking other people’s toys” book (I’m pretty sure that’s not the actual title. :wink: ) are major turn-offs.

I have no freakin’ idea what’s going on in the one Avengers book with the space guy who creates life, and I’m only vaguely following the storyline in the other Avengers book where there this chick who’s trying to stop our earth from being destroyed Crisis-style.

I like the “Young X-Men come to the future” one, but good fuck it’s a slooooooooooooooooooooooow pace.

And, despite how much I hate the concept, I’m loving the Superior Spider-man stuff.

But I’m down from a 40-50 book a week habit to maybe a 5-7 book a week habit and it’s dropping quickly.

Anyone else feel this way? Or conversely, anyone really loving what’s going on in comics? DC New 52 thoughts?

*And given that everyone from George Perez to Grant Morrison to Andy Diggle to James Robinson geez…dozens of others have quit books, often in mid-storyline or before they even started writing because they said that editorial was dictating content…

2

I’m with you. I’ve been reading from the Silver Age, but I stopped with the New 52. Everytime DC reboots, they try to get closer to Marvel, and it hurts them. So the JLA rebooted and they all argued with each other for 12 issues (or more, it was my last holdout but I’m through with it), just like the Avengers or the X-Men or the Defenders. Sheesh.

3

I’m still on Batwoman + Legion, and somewhat following Earth 2. All are rather lackluster. And I bailed on GL long before Johns ground it into dust; his work on JSA and then GL is what drew me back to DC. Not any more.

I’m always a sucker for “superhero school” books, so I pick up Wolverine & X, and All New X. Things have improved since I last regularly read Marvel (when Chuck Austen was busy doing horrible, horrible things to the books I liked). Not really excited enough to pick up more, though.

4

I can’t speak to DC’s New 52, but I can chime in on Marvel Now:

Overall, I think it was an excellent shot in the arm — though it did alter my reading habits.

Avengers — dropped. Even though Hickman is the critics’ darling, his stories are too dense and heady for me. Weirdly, I’m still reading New Avengers because those qualities seem to be appropriate for the Illuminati-themed book. It’s moving pretty slow, so we’ll see if it sticks.

Avengers Arena — Totally dubious of this title, but have quickly become a big fan. I get that people dismiss it as a Hunger Games knockoff, hell, the villain that created this Murderworld, copped to being inspired by the book. However, what grabbed me and kept me are potent, emotional, genuine-feeling character-driven storytelling. And that’s what I like in a comic book.

Young Avengers — super creative book. New, hip, fresh!

Secret Avengers — Interesting concept, and seems like a way to have a much-needed ersatz SHIELD book, but it is publishing really slow. Not sure what the holdup is.

Avengers Assemble — for pure readability, I’m preferring Kelly Sue’s book to Hickman’s.

Captain Marvel — i like the storytelling enough and want to support this book, but the art has been an obstacle for me.

Superior Spider-Man — I’m like you. Thought I’d hate it. But I haven’t been this interested in Spider-Man for a long time. I have no doubt Peter will come back somehow one day, but I’m enjoying the ride. I’ve had a frustration that Spidey has become too mainstream and “accepted” within his universe, and if this story has the effect of making him the “outsider” again, I’m all for it.

Thor, God of Thunder — Oh my god, the art on this book is fine!!! The story is interesting enough, too.

Hawkeye — BEST COMIC BEING MADE RIGHT NOW.

Captain America — Unsure. My favorite bits of Remender’s story were the Depression-era flashback. But the Zolaverse thing isn’t really what I crave for this character.

Iron Man — Believe it or not, I actually like Land’s art for this character. Kind of disappointed he’s moved on to another title. Stark in space is a nice change for a while, but I don’t want it to last forever.

Guardians of the Galaxy — Fun title so far. But I’m a Bendis reader, so I’m predisposed to liking this.

All-New X-Men / Uncanny X-Men — Ditto. I like that he’s reviving a semblance of the MLK Jr. vs. Malcolm X rivalry that existed between Xavier’s group and Magneto’s group in a manner that is less good vs evil and more about philosophy of activism. Hate the new Beast design, though.

5

It does seem like DC are making a dog’s breakfast of it, some titles hardly had the chance to get going before they were cancelled. I’m still loving Batwoman though. I’m also reading Earth 2, Justice League of America, and Batman, which are not exactly rocking my socks, but I’m going to give them a few more issues each. I’ll probably keep reading Batman because, well, it’s Batman. I’m still reading Batman and Robin, or whatever the writers decide it’s going to become now, but I’m very disappointed at Damian Wayne’s death. I don’t think he was very popular, but I always liked him. The first issue of Movement, by Gail Simone, is promising, but I love her and will read pretty much anything she’s written. I’m not reading Batgirl regularly though, waiting for trades on that one.

As much as it pains me to do so I have dropped Wonder Woman. She’s been reduced to a supporting character in her own book, and she’s now getting a second book…with Superman, as his girlfriend. Great. If DC ever decides to give her back to a writer who actually likes the character and know what to do with her then I’ll pick it back up again.

So, because DC has been disappointing me so much I’ve expanded my reading to Marvel. Captain Marvel is enjoyable, and FF is cute and pulp-y. I liked the first issue of X-Men, but as I’m not a long term Marvel reader I can’t say objectively if it’s a ‘good’ story or not, but I will keep reading.

6

Well, from what I understand, the spoilered event above has always been intended since the introduction of the character. It doesn’t have anything to do with the reboot either way.

7

I’ve cut down on a lot of the new 52 over the last year, and will reevaluate again at the two year mark. Although I am curious what their big Trinity War crossover will be.

Right now I’m still with most of the Bat titles except Batwing, Detective, and Dark Knight. Wonder Woman has been really good. However, she’s portrayed completely different in JL. I like her in her own book much better. JL Dark is the best of the JL titles in my opinion. I really enjoyed Green Lantern, but not sure if I’ll stay with those now that Johns is gone.

As for Marvel, I like All-New X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, and X-Men looks promising. Superior Spider-Man is enjoyable as well. I can’t seem to pull away from the main Avengers title. but it’s just meh. I do like Uncanny Avengers. though. Hawkeye’s solo book has been fantastic.

What about other publishers? I’m a huge Invincible fan and everything in that universe. The Walking Dead, of course. Saga by Brian K. Vaughn is very cool. I’ve recently discovered The Sixth Gun, published by Oni Press. It’s a supernatural western; love it.

8

Hawkeye’s my favorite Marvel character. Dare I hope he’s still married to Mockingbird?

9

Nope, sorry. But Bachelor Clint kinda works for the character, I think.

10

Young Avengers is the one book that actually makes me grin from ear to ear while reading it. Perfect art and story.

FF is actually pretty darn close to perfect as well. Fraction and Allred are really doing a great job. It’s a little silly but in an organic way (as opposed to Aaron’s Wolverine and the X-men which is too central a book to be as silly as it is)

Avengers Arena is a book I just didn’t want to support. My biggest pet peeve right now is the reckless and unwarranted creation of young heroes…essentially only to be killed off. A book that was based around that concept entirely… not for me.
I may pick up the trade of the first arc because people are talking it up so much, but it is going to have to be GREAT for me to care.

11

[spoiler]Don’t worry. He lives in a world where no ever dies permanently, and he comes from a family whose superpower is that they never die permanently.

Pretty sure he’ll be back.
[/spoiler]

12

I’ll give it a try!

I agree with what you’re saying but there’s more to it than that for me. Marvel was having quite a renaissance of new characters–some lame, some not, but Runaways? Roughly 40-50 issues (across several series). Young Avengers (not counting the new book? Roughly 30 issues across several series. The kids from that one “Misfit Avengers” book I really liked…(th’ hell was the name? Avengers Academy? That doesn’t sound right. Mettle, Hazmat, etc…that team) held a book for about 40+ issues.

Each one of these groups had titles that lasted longer than

  • She-Hulk’s original title
  • Ms Marvel’s original title.
  • Captain Mar-Vell’s original title
  • The freakin HULK’s original title (lasted 6 issues)
    …just to name a few.

It’s hard to create characters with staying power and any book that makes it past about issue 14 is doing really well in today’s market.

This guy, who’s never created a character of his own, is randomly killing characters that sell. I thought we got past the “Let’s show how super-cool a writer I am by breaking other people’s toys” phase of comics back in the mid '90s when Waid and Busiek and (a little later) Johns started trying to fix things.

13

Heh, I was hoping that would be the case.

14

Fenris, have you read Avengers Arena, or do you hate it out of principle?

15

I tried to get into the new Deadpool but I hated the writing. It seemed…juvenile, I guess. I mean, the presidents come back to life and they’re evil? It was weird and goofy for the sake of being weird and goofy.

16

I’m sorry, I have to rebut this. I’ll try to be respectful.

This doesn’t sound like you were a very avid follower of them.

You treat these as a 1:1 relationship, but a character from an ensemble book ≠ the headlining star of a book. You can’t fairly extrapolate that Mettle (the only member of the Academy who has died) is the reason Academy survived the three years it lasted.

One-third of the characters in Avengers Arena are Hopeless’ own characters. As for the golden calves this series has killed…

[ul]
[li]Mettle: he’s been around for just 3 years. I liked him enough.[/li][li]**Red Raven: **not even the one from the golden age, but his daughter, who has appeared a total of six times, always as an ancillary character.[/li][li]Kid Briton: One of the characters the writer created for this series[/li][li]**Juston Sefert: ** The star of the Iron Giant knockoff Sentinel, apart from that, an ancillary character.[/li][li]Nico Minoru: Okay, I grant you this one. That crushed me.[/li][/ul]

I’m not trying to make you “like” the book, or even the underlying premise. I just want to make sure you’re not laboring under incorrect assumptions.

17

I wish! That was one of the few really strong, stable, good, healthy married relationships in comics. And…they threw it away. (Way back in West Coast Avengers.) Sigh…

(And don’t get me started and Hank and Janet Pym…)

The only DC title I really like these days is Jonah Hex. (I’ll read anything by Palmiotti! The guy is a genius!)

I had hopes for Uncanny X-Force – Spiral has been my favorite character since her first appearance! – but, no, it’s slow, dull, uninspired, flat, and the [blackout box] cussing is tiresome. I don’t see Psylocke as that much of a cusser, and Spiral certainly not.

But, hey! Gold Digger! Everybody, take a sneak at Gold Digger! Go to Antarctic Press Library and take a look at some back issues. Fred Perry is a genius among geniuses. His art started out a bit rough – and, frankly, these days it’s a little too streamlined – but the guy can write.

Um… Sorry for highjack…

Wonder Woman has some promise, but I hate the new interpretations of the Greek Gods.

Supergirl is…okay. Nothing special.

Batgirl is just damn weak. Why they threw out the entire Oracle continuity and put Barbara back in the Bat Suit makes no sense. Dumb move. (I liked the scarred-and-torn mute version of Batgirl. That was interesting!)

Teen Titans? Who are these idiots pretending to be the Teen Titans?

18

Thanks Miller / sorry for not doing that myself.

19

I appreciate the gentle rebuttal. :slight_smile: I’ll try to do the same.

I was, but when I wrote this it was about 4 minutes before the end of my lunch break and I was also on the phone. I was just drawing a blank.

No–but he was part of it.
One-third of the characters in Avengers Arena are Hopeless’ own characters. As for the golden calves this series has killed…

[ul]
[li]Mettle: he’s been around for just 3 years. I liked him enough.[/li][li]**Red Raven: **not even the one from the golden age, but his daughter, who has appeared a total of six times, always as an ancillary character.[/li][li]Kid Briton: One of the characters the writer created for this series[/li][li]**Juston Sefert: ** The star of the Iron Giant knockoff Sentinel, apart from that, an ancillary character.[/li][li]Nico Minoru: Okay, I grant you this one. That crushed me.[/li][/ul]

I stand corrected. I thought all of them were existing characters. This is to Hopeless’s credit, btw.

20

I think Marvel is really firing on all cylinders right now.

Captain America and Thor: God of Thunder are among the best comics I’ve ever read featuring those characters, I’m completely obsessed with Superior Spider-Man (I’d put Dan Slott’s overall run on Spider-Man just under the Ditko and Romita issues as the best Spider-Man comics ever), and FF, Hawkeye, and Indestructible Hulk are all really fun comics. I think Wolverine and the X-Men is probably the single best ongoing superhero title of the past few years. I’m even enjoying New X-Men, which I never would have guessed in a million years.

The first few months of the New 52 were all I needed to sever the few remaining ties I had to DC books. I had gone from being a huge DC fan for most of my life, to gradually drifting away during the utterly repellent Johns/Meltzer/whoever else years, to now reading nothing of theirs at all aside from the odd Morrison-penned Superman or Batman comic.

But again, I think Marvel Comics are better than they have been in years. Marvel’s approach could not be further from what DC did. Marvel’s creators are bringing in a host of new concepts while respecting and putting new spins on history and retaining - fortifying, even - the cores of its characters. It’s some really great stuff.

Granted, I don’t read Avengers Arena, so I don’t really care what’s happening in it. I’ll also add that I could not have cared less about Age of Ultron, but I found it extremely easy to avoid.