What’s the problem with the horse-drawn carriages?
It’s an animal cruelty issue.
I eat pizza with a fork in one hand and grabbing the crust with the other. When the pizza is small enough that I can grab it by the crust and the opposite end doesn’t hang like a flaccid penis, then I can finish eating with just the hand
Jon Stewart does indeed have an opinion on the subject. (It’s not as dramatic as the Donald Trump rant, but it’s not bad.)
A napkin does a pretty poor job of getting grease off your fingers.
Those horses are treated very well and are closely monitored by the city. There is no cruelty unless you are using the PETA definition.
I do think it’s cruel to make horses walk through traffic on asphalt all day. It’s a long-outdated tradition and it’s time for it to go away.
I disagree. And I’m more than a little leery that the big supporters of the ban were real estate developers and an animal rights group that donated heavily to the campaign.
Cite talking about how the horses were being taken care of. DeBlasio's First Move: Carriage Horses - The New York Times
So what?
That blog entry isn’t much of a cite, and it doesn’t address the concerns people have about the business. From a quick perusal of blogs, those concerns include: the working conditions are hard and the horses die young as a result, the working hours are very long (nine hours a day year-round), the animals get no unsupervised time outside except for their five-week “vacation” when they should get that kind of time every day, their stalls are tiny, and the rules that are supposed to protect them are only loosely enforced. All that for a tiny luxury item nobody needs in the first place.
The so what will come into play when the land used for the stables goes on the market. I wonder who will profit by that?
I saw a lot of blogs about it. Many claiming that many of the out of work horses will be put to death. Instead of quoting any of that I went with the editorial page editor of the New York Times. Someone I would consider credible. Who is also someone who checked in on their conditions first hand. I think you hit the nail on the head. Its a luxury item. One which brings in millions of dollars to the city. But he is against anything that appears like privilege. Even if working class people lose their jobs because of it.
Here is an article that I think gives a pretty good look at both sides of the issue.
I disagree strongly. Those horses are pretty well treated. They are not overworked. Also what do you think is going to happen to all of the current horses? They are not likely to find homes for most of them. De Blasio not only eats pizza wrong but he just sign the death sentence for probably hundred of wonderful animals. I mean if this was to be done at all, it should be some sort of 20 year phase out.
Now seriously, pizza, real pizza is not meant to be eaten with a fork. If it is so mushy that it needs a fork it is not even really pizza but some pizza-like food.
Real estate developers in New York profit by everything. There are four stables, and that would be far from the most nefarious real estate deal going on around here. And there’s a legitimate issue regardless.
That’s up to the people who own the horses, and it sounds like that will happen only if they want it to happen. And I get the sense the horses die at a pretty high rate when they’re pulling carriages full-time.
MSNBC says it’s a $19 million business, and my reading is that that’s the gross income of the carriage business. The city probably gets some tax revenue from that, but that’s not a lot of money Particularly not for a city that gets $70 billion in revenue every year. And according to one blog I found, the city subsidizes the industry by paying for the stables, which means the contribution is really smaller than that. I’m not eager to see people lose their jobs, but it’s an outdated business that’s built on mistreating animals. This isn’t NYC issue #1, but public opinion seems to have turned and this is not something that we need.
They work long days almost year round and the conditions don’t sound great.
As referenced in that MSNBC story, the ASPCA and other organizations can help with that. So no, this is not likely to be a problem.
Not in the slightest.
What conceivable purpose would that serve - other than making sure the ban never actually happened?
An animal rights group spends big bucks on De Blasio’s campaign and more money to run ads against his opponent. That group is co-founded by a prominent real estate developer. Before he is even done naming his staff De Blasio puts into motion the ban. A ban which will open up prime real estate on the west side. I don’t know where it ranks on the nefarious scale but it still stinks.
How many horses are employed in NYC in this business? How many drivers are being put out of business? Why should I believe the ASPCA can place all these horses? Does not sound reasonable to me. The 20 year phase would be no new horses or drivers. Let the business fade away.
People have been calling for an end to the carriage rides for years, though. And for that matter if the city is subsidizing the stables and the stables are only in business because of the carriage industry, I don’t much care if that land goes to someone else.
There are zero horses employed. People have jobs. But anyway there are around 200 carriage horses.
I’m not sure. I know that a few dozen have already bought medallions for the proposed electric cabs.
Is there any particular reason you think national organizations can’t find homes for 200 animals?
The business wouldn’t fade away; that’d be doing nothing. Anyway the horses don’t seem to live nearly that long.
The city will also be subsidizing the stupid electric car idea.
Yes. And they’re expecting that will make more money than the carriages, although I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
So in 2006 there were
I hope the fate of the horses is carefully followed and the next use of the land the stables are on.
Can anyone find a cite of the actual work day of these horses. I know about the work day of the ones in Cape May and it is far from 9 hours continuous.
Clearly it is a case of a Red Sox fan trying to destroy NYC charm and character. Fake Brooklynite that he is. 
Horsegate!
I just microwaved a slice of leftover pizza and the crust is too mushy to support the toppings, so I’m using a fork. Fuggin’ sue me. However you get your food into your mouth shoudn’t be anybody else’s business as long as it’s done politely, dammit :mad:
If you don’t also eat lasagna with your fingers, you have no right to criticize someone who eats pizza with a fork, because it’s the same damn thing.
A bunch of grease and tomato paste and you want to get it all over your hands? If you want to finger paint then go back to kindergarten.