Saw an item on last night’s local news re: a spelling bee for deaf children. It occurred to me - how do the kids know what words they’re to spell out? Since the students seemed to be jr. h.s. age or so, I’m assuming the words were more difficult than could be expressed by pictures. I always thought reading lips was actually an unusual skill and quite difficult - am I mistaken?
I’ve had contact with only two deaf people in my life (my current roommate and a friend’s aunt), but both of them read lips, and seemed to have no trouble doing so. Another option would be for the moderator of the spelling bee to give the words in American Sign Language–most deaf people who use sign language don’t “finger-spell” all the time, but use signs that stand for words instead. For example, the word “love” is simply crossing your arms over your chest as if you were hugging yourself.
In spelling bees for the hearing, the words typically are ones that are not used in everyday conversation. I question if ASL would have signs for those words. I also question the effectiveness of lip reading for a single word, with no conversational context, especially if it again is a word not normally used in in everyday speech.
Though it may not be a perfect example, consider “arrhythmia” and “arithmetic.” It could be pretty tough to distinguish them through lip-reading, and I’d be surprised if ASL has a sign for “arrhythmia.”
So I share fessie’s question, and also wonder what types of words are used.
ASL doesn’t have ‘words’ per se, but the signs usually represent the concepts of language.
Simple words have signs that aren’t usually interpereted in multiple ways, but can be. “Love” can be seen as ‘love’ or (if the signer were to act out the sign with more emphasis) ‘really love’, ‘cherish’, ‘canonize’, and so on.
This is why you have Sign Language interpreters, and not ‘Translators’.
Along the same lines, Deaf people can be confused watching closed captions if it reads “[Doorbell rings]”. Deaf people (if raised in a predominately Deaf environment) may not know what a doorbell is. Had the caption read somethign like “Loud noise at door, person arrives” it would make more sense.
It would be interesting to see how the words were presented at the Bee.
Off-topic a bit, this is the type of thing that seems to always raise a debate within the Deaf community. Some militant (for lack of a better word) Deaf people believe that their language is thier own culture, and hearing people who try to impress English (or God forbid speaking) upon Deaf children are only trying to ‘fix’ them, and kill the Deaf culture. These are the same people who are dead-set against hearing aids, Cochlear implants, and other corrective measures.
NoGoodNames: ASL does have words per se. Those words are expressed manually instead of by means of manipulating the airflow through the oral or nasal cavities.
I fear you have also overstated the off-topic issue you’ve mentioned.
Cassie Beth: The reason Deaf people don’t fingerspell all the time is because fingerspelling is used to express manually a language other than their particular Sign Language. It is essentially a means of transliteration.
You can sign a word & have them fingerspell it. Seems logical enough to me. They are kids, so don’t expect medical or scientific or latin words…
We have an adult spelling bee in my city & I was going to ask for an interpreter this year, but chickened out. Now, that would be interesting to see!
No, ‘Signed English’ is the word-for-word representation of the spoken word (“I ate a sandwich today”)
‘ASL’ is a non-verbal language of it’s own, complete with syntax that differs greatly from spoken English (“Now/today sandwich eat”).
One sign can be interpreted in multiple ways. The sign generally used to mean ‘bathroom’ can be ‘Loo’, ‘Can’, ‘Pisser’, ‘WC’, ‘Men’s Room’, ‘Ladies Room’, ‘Shit Hall’…whatever.
It just so happens that my deaf 10 year old nephew is going to be in a spelling bee soon. At his school’s spelling bee, the kids are given a giant list of words in advance, and the words will be given to him by an interpreter (in this case my brother, who is a teacher for deaf kids). So my brother and his son sat down and devised signs for most of the words on the list, which isn’t as difficult as one might think.
For example, there is a standard ASL sign for “science”. How do you express “botany” “chemistry” “physiology”, etc? The easiest way is to use an initialized sign…chemistry is “science” done with a “C” handshape, physiology is done with a “P” handshape.
ASL can express any concept that english can, but it doesn’t have the vast range of slightly different synonyms that english does. Instead an ASL sign is modified by location, intensity, duplication, speed, or directionality to indicate slightly different meanings. So if you want to translate an english word exactly, and make sure that the person knows exactly what english word was used you often have to make up new signs, or fingerspell the word.
And my nephew will give the answers with fingerspelling. I’m not sure if they will have a separate person to interpret the fingerspelling or if my brother will interpret the fingerspelling too.
What? A bee where they give you the words beforehand? Hmmm.
That was the way it was with my middle school’s spelling bee, once upon a time. (Giving the words beforehand, I mean.) Considering that this was about eight pages of closely-spaced, triple-column words in no particular order, memorization alone didn’t help. It’s a way to keep the contest fair – with a set list of words, and a set order in which they will be asked (the latter not revealed to the kids, of course), you don’t get teachers nailing a kid they don’t like with “transcendentalism” while the next gets “coaster.”
Look, NGNL; I don’t mind being corrected, but it helps for two things to be true: 1) I’m wrong (& in this instance, I’m not) & 2) the corrector to be right (& in this instance you’re not).
Now to your last posting:
I didn’t say jack about Signed English. I was stating that ASL does, in fact, have words. The fact of the matter is that ASL does, in fact, have words. Also a fact is that the word in ASL is represented manually. The lack of an ingressive or egressive airflow manipulation does not equate to a manual representation not being a word.
That’s irrelevant as to whether the language has words. BTW, all languages, no matter how they are represented have words. That’s kind of the idea, after all, of a language.
That’s also completely irrelevant. After all, one word in English can be interpreted in mutually contradictory ways. I give you the word “cleave” as an example. Also, one word present in more than one language can have different meanings in those languages. I give you as an example the word “gift” in the English & German languages.
Have you taken a sign language class that introduces you to the Deaf culture? I’m just curious, since you seem to misunderstand this issue.
It is a big debate, Manualism (ASL) vs. Oral (English). You can’t use words like “god forbid”, “seems to always,” and sarcasm when speaking about this with a Deaf person, because you will offend them. It is a culture, as difficult as it is for hearing people to understand that. ASL has been classified as a legitimate language.
You say “militant, for lack of a better word,” but these people aren’t militant. They’re one side of an issue. They aren’t a minority–in fact, they often seem like the majority–in Deaf culture, although I realize they are a minority among all human beings.
If you watch any documentary on Deaf people, or read a book about it (try Deaf in America; Voices from a Culture), you will see that Deaf people often behave very differently from those who are hearing. It’s not just a matter of not being able to hear and having a signed language for communication; it is an entire culture, a value system, an educational system, and a core group.
Before you ask, no, I do not consider myself a part of Deaf culture. I was raised to have a hearing aid and practice Oralism. I read lips and my hearing aids are a great asset to me; however, I realize that many people in the Deaf community would reject the way my parents raised me (they are both hearing, like the majority of parents of Deaf people) and I respect that, because they have their own value system. Were I to join the Deaf culture I could probably be assiminated quite easily, but I would be referred to by other terms (“hearing impaired” and so on) until I really did become Deaf.
It isn’t something that can be reduced in simple, or degrading, language; it’s been going on for years and really can’t be understood. Go ahead, try to explain American, Irish, Spanish or any other culture to someone in as few words as you or I have done. It doesn’t work.
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- I only know two words in sign language, but I can give them both with one gesture.
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- I only know two words in sign language, but I can give them both with one gesture.
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What would they be, Doug?
Okay, I’ve been following this thread and still haven’t seen an answer. Here are the winning words for the last 10 national spelling bees:
1993__kamikaze
1994__antediluvian
1995__xanthosis
1996__vivisepulture
1997__euonym
1998__chiaroscurist
1999__logorrhea
2000__demarche
2001__succedaneum
2002__prospicience
Of course, a local spelling bee isn’t as tough, but I’m sure there’ll be tough words nonetheless. I highly doubt that there’s a sign for succedaneum in ASL, or Signed English, or any such system. So how would this word be presented? Or would they just have to limit the spelling bee to fairly common words?
Having worked with a deaf medical researcher, I’d have to say some of you folks would be very surprised at the specialized words that have their own signs.
Also keep in mind that the participants of spelling bees are permitted to ask for a definition of the word (at least in the ones I’ve seen). So while “arrythmia” and “arithmatic” may appear similar to a lip-reader, the definitions are very different and would permit the two words to be distinguished.
So while there may be some disadvantage for a deaf child, it’s probably not as great as some folks are imagining it to be.
Couldn’t you just present the words phonetically in written form?
I know nothing about ASL or lip-reading, but if they wanted to present words that did not have a specific sign, this would seem an easy solution.
Just re-read my original post, and didn’t realize how I came across originally. I didn’t intend to sound so assertive (with ‘ass’ being the emphasis). I am sorry.
‘Yes’, ASL has words, but the interpretation of many of them can differ slightly, so to give words in a Spelling Bee could be difficult in that the reader may see a slightly different word than intended. I didn’t mean to define the language.
Caesar’s Ghost, I didn’t mean to come across as sarcastic. I am sorry it sounded that way. If I must qualify myself, I have a diploma in Deaf-Blind Communication from George Brown College in Toronto, have worked extensively with the Deaf & Deaf-Blind at the Bob Rumball Centre for the Deaf and the Canadian National Institue for the Blind, and taught Signed English in private courses over the past 10 years. I also worked & volunteered in Special Needs classes with AAC children ranging from 6-12 years old.
I didn’t mean ‘militant’, and I knew that word was far too strong. I meant ‘firm to their side.’ I am well aware of the Deaf culture and I highly respect it.
This is exactly the thing I was trying to get across (“Deaf” vs. “deaf”). However, as a hearing person, I would from time to time come in contact with Deaf people who wouldn’t talk to me because I was hearing. (You would have a hard time being accepted amongst the Deaf, right…try being Hearing and fitting in).
The first question often seemed to be ‘Are you Deaf’?. But you’re going to get jerks in any walk of life (or culture), I suppose.
But back to the OP, all I meant was because ASL differs so much from English (and doesn’t really have a strict translation), giving the words for the purpose of a spelling bee would be difficult, and I’d be interesrted to know how it was done.