Dealing with "difficult" dogs

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

This is a slightly edited and expanded version of a post in the Pit relating to the Noem brouhaha:

Speaking of how to treat animals, in particular dogs: I was friends with a family that got a young dog to be a companion to their old well-behaved dog. But they didn’t put much if any training into the exuberant “I want LOVE!” pup and kept it on a chain in back of their house, with very little human interaction. These weren’t inherently bad people, but they were used to a Good Dog and didn’t have the patience to train the youngster properly, poor thing.

One day I was visiting and went out back. The poor dog was thrilled to see me, wanted to jump up, etc. Now, I’ve never owned a dog but I understand them. I spent the next hour or two with the dog on a leash, gently discouraging unwanted behavior, calmly praising and petting when it did what I wanted. The poor damned thing inhaled every bit of attention and became much calmer. Heck, it wound up leaning against my leg when I said “Sit” and it sat, gazing up at me adoringly.

By the end of our time the dog was sitting when requested and walking politely by my side. We walked around the house and up to where the family were sitting outside. As I approached they started telling me how untrainable and obnoxious the dog was – then stopped, dumbstruck (and I suspect somewhat embarrassed and annoyed) at how I’d succeeded when they’d failed.

Alas, they didn’t carry on from where I’d left off and the dog later escaped twice – the first time to be caught and returned by the animal control officer, who had it briefly at home where his kids loved it, then shortly after its return got away again to a fate unknown.

Sure, some dogs are harder to train than others, but there’s no excuse for doing a crappy job, then blaming the dog for one’s own failure. If you try and fail, get professional help, or find a home where the dog can thrive.

Heck, just look at the story of Ralphie the Reformed Demon Dog, who seemed utterly unadoptable, untrainable, but who’s thriving now that the right person has taken him.

2

I have Dillon the Villain.
He’s a bad bad boy.

Escape Artist. A jumper, a chaser and an odd ball.
He’s a Carolina cur.
Notoriously hard to train.

Mr Wrek had problems and took him to a fancy dog trainer. Who failed miserably. When we found out he was using a shock collar and leaving Dillon hungry to quickly train him with food. We fired him.

My Son, Mr.Wrek and myself got him trained enough to start him on training to tree squirrels.

He has matured enough now to be so much calmer. 3 years in. At 18 Mo’s he was so out of control any sane person would’ve given up. We ain’t like that.

He may never hunt reliably but is a perfectly fun, active and happy dog. Loves the kids. Loves Mr.Wrek.

Sometimes, time is what/all you need.

Funny thing: we worked so hard on a consistent “sit”, if you say “Dillon sit” he rolls into a pretzel shape, head on the ground, and makes this funny noise. It’s turned into his special trick. The kids love it. He always gets a treat.

3

My beloved former dog would have been judged “difficult”, particularly in his puppy years. He was usually well behaved but was subject to what vets called “fear aggression”, so that when frightened he might nip at someone, though oddly he was very shy with strangers and only family members were at risk of being nipped. He went to puppy obedience school and later I had a professional trainer come in to work with him and give me advice.

I still remember a vet – not his regular vet who loved him, but some asshole who worked in the same office – suggesting during the difficult period that he should be put down. This is how some people are, sometimes even those who are supposed to work with animals. I barely resisted telling this asshole that maybe he should be put down, or at least go into another line of work.

After a lot of time and patient training he became a totally wonderful, adorable dog that I was privileged to have as a companion. He bonded very closely with both me and my son, to the point that, even though he loved his walks, he would only let me or my son walk him. I tried to hire a dog-walker once, and he refused to be led more than a few yards from the house by this unknown stranger. He also would never take treats from strangers.

4

What I’m hearing from both of you is that you had damned difficult, frustrating dogs to work with, but you gave them time, patience, love, and steady training, achieving Good Dogs (within their abilities) who were happy and made you happy.

Would that every difficult dog could be so lucky.

ETA: Seems to me that some folks don’t understand how long puppy brain can last.

5

That’s true.

Some dogs are clever from nearly day one. Others need more time to cook.

The late bloomers can be exceptional dogs. And since you spent more time in their impressionable periods they will be very loyal to you.
It’s worth it every time.

6

He was objectively very intelligent. He was a Bernese Mountain Dog, which are known to be highly intelligent working dogs, but he was exceptional even by those standards. OTOH, he was also a strong-willed alpha male. In a dog pack, he would have been the natural leader. Since in a human-dog relationship the human is supposed to be the alpha dog, this led to a certain tension in our relationship! One of the simple techniques the trainer taught me to reinforce that alpha role was to get the dog to sit while his dinner was being dished out, and only come when he was called. He was always very obedient in that regard.

7

Our current dog was “rehomed” to us. The prior family got her as a puppy because the teen kids were spending a lot of time with the father’s (divorce) dog and the mother wanted them to have a dog at her house for them to train. Well, none of them spent any time with her, so for the first year and a half+ of her life they just shunted her by day to their backyard and ignored her. When they let her inside at night (to a crate) she of course was full of energy and seeking attention, and with a toddler in the house they grew concerned for safety. We heard about her right after our prior dog had to be put down (cancer) and so we decided to go over and take a look. We were told she is a “sweet” dog but too much energy needed for them to keep her - if we did not take her, she was going to the pound the next day (no pressure). When we saw her she was standing on a picnic table barking her head off at us and them - starving for attention. We told ourselves if she bites us we wont take her, but she did not bite us, so we took her home.

No training at all was provided to her, she had no idea how to behave indoors, no basic commands, she never had a tennis ball, afraid of noises coming from outside, afraid of the ceiling fan, uncontrollable barking at the slightest disturbance - she was a wreck! During the first two weeks I contemplated sending her to the pound, too, but with steady and consistent guidance from 3-4 adults she has learned quickly and almost all her bad habits are a memory. Now she’s OUR awesome dog!

Anyway, most dogs, even difficult ones, can be great dogs, but it takes responsible owners spending time with them. If someone isn’t willing to put in the time, they should not own a dog.

8

Utterly true, and one of many reasons I have stuck to cats. While I did do well with that one dog, purely on a whim, I know myself well enough to be aware that I probably wouldn’t put in the hard work to bring a puppy to responsible adult dog.

Of course, there’s always elderly dogs at shelters needing adoption, but even if my cats would accept that [Narrator: They would NOT.] I’m not up to walking a dog multiple times per day in any kind of weather.

9

I don’t think that walking multiple times per day is necessary, especially if you have a fairly big and well-fenced back yard. It’s one of the reasons that dogs and apartments are not a good match. The poor doggie already has to make so many compromises to fit with human habitation that this just seems cruel! But a good walk once a day is pretty much required, along with the occasional good run and doggie socialization in a dog park. All I had to do was say “would you like to go for a walk?” for Bernie to start leaping in a frenzy of doggie joy! Clearly, the question was rhetorical since I already knew the answer! :smiley:

But yes, fully concur with your point. Cats are cats, but dogs are more like children in the attention and care they need, but the rewards are so worth it!

10

Ah, there it is – As an adult (my mom wouldn’t let us have a dog) I’ve always lived in apartments and now a condo with a tiny unfenced back yard, so giving a dog room to run and play just isn’t and hasn’t been in the cards. Not to mention most of my working life I haven’t had time for long walks.

Oh, well, when I’m out and about now I frequently meet dogs being walked, and if their owners say yes when I ask if I can greet them, I get my doggie fix and then move on. My walking buddy and I are so well known to one dog who gets walked on our usual route that when May spots us, as much as a hundred yards away, her tail starts wagging madly in anticipation of being loved on.

11

My Grady is super anxious. He came to me needing “a calm companion dog” at home. I had just gotten my Morgan who is a lump of a dog so we qualified. The foster that brought him over seemed very anxious for me to have him once she saw my big fenced in back yard, and him and Morgan not hating each other.

I’ve gone through a lot of hell with Grady. First he peed all over and ate pillows and scratched doors when I left home. Ok, I didn’t leave for a long time and we specifically worked on leaving (he had crate anxiety so I couldn’t use a crate).

Then I learned he could jump fences, so I had to extend my fence upward.

Once he jumped out of a moving car to chase a squirrel.

He’s a great walker but has leash aggression so we had to deal with that. Still dealing with it but we have our tools to manage it.

He’s deathly afraid of storms and fireworks. But also whistles and beeps. And flies in the house. Lots of sleepless nights due to all of that.

One time my fridge started making a new noise that freaked him out so I had to have someone come over to fix my fridge which wasn’t broken just wearing out. Luckilly only a $150 job.

A couple years ago he started randomly waking up in the night being scared like there’s a storm. So now he’s on Prozac.

He got cancer last year and I decided to do chemo for him. They gave me Trazadone and Gabapentin to take, the night before and 90 mins before the treatment. We show up and he’s his regular wound up self. The doctor asked why I didn’t give him the drugs. He’s had all the drugs he’s just this upset. They had to sedate him fully. One time while the doc was waiting for him to get sedated, he chewed through his leash.

Grady has been a handful over the past 10 years. He’s turned my life upside down. All this plus 2 replaced knees, a splenectomy and chemo. He’s my $30k dog. Luckilly he was on sale when I got him, just $75.

Gonna be so weird when he’s gone. I love him to pieces.

12

I find leash aggression fascinating. Is it just other-dog-directed or does he react that way to people you meet as well? I’ve chatted with more than one dog walker whose dog clearly has decided this Stranger Will. Not. Pass. and get close to its human, who has assured me her/his dog is actually friendly when not on leash. I figure the dog wants to protect its human. Why this is more of an imperative when leashed, I don’t know.

13

It’s heartwarming how these tales of troubles and woe and costs always end with some variant of “but I love him so much!” You’re a good Dog Person who will go to heaven. You’ll like it there – that’s surely where all dogs go. As the physician and educator Aaron Katcher once said (paraphrased) “a dog is like a child who never grows old – always there to love and be loved”.

14

No problem with people whatsoever. Or bikes or skateboards. He actually has a “buffer zone” where other dogs are ok.

Some dogs deal with reaction to people and bikes and stuff. Thank Og that isn’t us.

For Grady, Dogs in their own backyards where the yard is 100’ feet away are fine. Dogs in backyards on corner lots where they’re 20’ away are no good.

And of course, dogs walking past us in the street or a path are Ultimate Enemies.

We did join a local pack walk for reactive dogs for a while, where all the dogs were anxious jerks. They did pretty well together because none of the dogs interacted they just walked in the same direction together. Of course if someone came the opposite way with a dog it was a massive issue but Grady did learn to at least be ok with neighbor hood dogs walking in the same direction. We had to stop going because the other humans in the group were way more fit than me and we were basically running through the woods and…no. :rofl:

Anyway, working on leash reaction has been a 10 year battle. He’s not perfect but it’s amazing how good he is now compared to when we started. We walk every single day.

Oh and this is definitely a leash issue. We used to go to the dog park once a week and as soon as he was off his leash he paid no mind to other dogs. :woman_shrugging:

15

Good for both of you! May, the dog I mentioned who adores walking buddy Jean (experienced dog owner now dogless) and me, was a lot more reactive some years ago when we first began meeting her and her human on our walks. I’m inclined to be a bit more up when meeting dogs, but on Jean’s sensible advice I toned it way down to quiet murmurs and light petting to keep from overexciting her.

Over the years May, through hard work by her owner (and no doubt age), has become a lot calmer, though I’m still less exuberant with her than with other dogs, knowing her personality. May still is reactive to to other dogs but at a much lesser level. It’s a good feeling to know she’s always thrilled to see us.

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I’m glad you all got May figured out! Especially for May’s sake.

Grady is actually not exciteable at all. He has never jumped on people or run to meet people. If you come to the door he will bark when the door is closed then let you pet him then go chew on his bone.

He actually is afraid of emotive humans. Very afraid of yelling. I forgot to mention in my other post that he’s terrified of the 8 lb neighbor dog because the owners yell for her to come in. So now he equates her with yelling and when he hears her collar he runs back inside.

He doesn’t know how to play with toys very well. If you tell him to go get a toy he gets a little confused then anxious and will just stand there and bark. You have to let him initiate grabbing a toy and you can throw it a bit for him but if he thinks he’s doing it wrong he just stops.

We had a lot of problems when my team was in the World Series. I was excited and emotional and he was scared. We gotta keep everything on an even keel.

People we meet on the street who are dog less always say what nice calm dogs I have. Cuz they’re both good at standing and waiting. Little do they know….

17

Wow, poor Grady! He’s lucky to have you as his human.

ETA: It sounds as if a lot of his anxiety comes from trying too hard to get it all right and not being sure how to go about it. Not to mention very sensitive hearing.

18

Yes he needs constant validation and guidance. Which is ok when required by a dog as long as the human realizes this is what it going to be like.

I do not give my boyfriend as much leeway :rofl: he needs to figure out his own shit!

19

Our old Maggie (RIP) was a Catahoula mix who was found feral at the trading post in Tuba City AZ. She was totally sweet around humans (including wiggling up to a friend’s infant daughter on her stomach on first meeting), but pretty much couldn’t stand other dogs. It took us a long time to figure out she needed to be leashed in public (we were very very rural, so usually it wasn’t an issue). My wife did a lot of desensitizing training with her. One trainer said that some females just have the “bitch factor” and after about 2 YO decide they’re just done with other dogs. One morning after we moved to Bozeman she was bloated and lethargic so off to the vet we went–emergency surgery to clear an intestinal blockage and remove her spleen–basically took all her guts out and reinserted them. She overnighted at the doggie ER and made a full recovery! If we had still been in Telluride she probably would have died. She lived 3 more years. Darn dogs.

20

Our dog Stormy is a rescue, a mix of mostly golden retriever with a bit of collie. We got him at age 5 (he’s now 14 3/4). He’s wonderful in nearly every way except that he will attack any other dog that gets near him, from huge german shepherds to miniature dachshunds.

We thought we could train him out of that. We can’t. During our time with him, he’s slightly injured two other dogs who got too close to him. We rarely walk him without a leash, only doing so when both my wife and I are together with him out in the middle of our 60 acre property. Even then he’s dashed off into the woods and eluded us, so now we only try that because he’s slowed down with age.

He’s great with infants, toddlers, and cats. We’ve no idea why he hates other dogs so much.

We can’t kennel him when we go on vacations, as he’d go insane being kept so close to other dogs. Fortunately we’ve reliable house/pet sitters for that.

We’ve had difficulty with others who let their dogs roam free, and who thus approach him when he’s tethered outdoors on our property. We’ve had to get quite firm with the folks whose animals trespass against us that way.

He’s been worth it, but it has been more work and less fun than past less “difficult” dogs we’ve had.