I’m so frustrated right now that I’m starting to get legitimately depressed.
I’ve recently encountered a “Truther”, ‘in the flesh’, for the first time in my life, and found out a few friends and acquaintances are Anti-Vaxxers. :smack:
I’m also finding it more difficult to tolerate people of faith. For the most part, I try to ignore what they’re saying so long as it’s not harmful… but relying on faith DOES seem harmful to me.
I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I’ve been “schooled” plenty on these boards, but I’m always *seeking *the truth. That’s why I love you guys and gals. This is the best place I can go with this particular problem. It just bothers me so much that people rely on “truthiness” over truth.
I guess I’m in need of some advice. I’m sort of hoping people can open about their frustration, (or past frustration), as well. I feel hostility growing inside of me. I just want to physically shake the ‘crazy’ out of people.
I have several people in my life who, in many contexts, I really like and enjoy their company. But who also have some very incompatible lifestyle/views: extremely devout, Faux-News-watchers, overly enamoured by woo, a chronic alcoholic, a dear friend so fat she cannot do many activities.
I pick and choose. The alcoholic, I will not interact with when she’s drinking. Love her when she is sober. The disabled-fat friend, we do stuff together that she CAN do, and that we both enjoy.
(Sorry, I just re-read your OP - neither of these people are in any way stupid. But they are still people that I have limited interaction with because of differences, but enjoy the interactions we have in common.)
Same with the others. If the woo and the stupid (from my perspective; I am sure they think the same of me) is TOO strong or overwhelming, there really cannot be a relationship. But some people like this also have many qualities and world-views I value and enjoy, so we focus on that and simply agree to disagree on politics or homeopathy or religious doctrine. For the most part it doesn’t bother me that they have some nutty ideas. I am very, very far from perfect myself. And some of these people I know have, frankly, more successful lives than me. Better marriages/family relationships, better jobs, more money, nicer homes, more education, etc. So I don’t get frustrated or angry any more the same way I did when I was younger. I just accept people as best I can, learn from the good and disregard the rest.
You can’t unconvince someone who has already convinced themself, no matter how unreasonable their position is to you. They’re just looking for an argument. And understand your position is just as illogical and untenable to them as theirs is to you.
I know they think they are right, in which case, they are kind of in the same position I’m in.
I suppose I should feel lucky that I’m able to determine who I feel is most reliable in getting factual advice from. chiroptera, that wasn’t sappy. That was a good read.
Always be humbled by your ignorance-- and remember that you probably don’t know your own areas of ignorance, because that’s just how ignorance works. You have your own blind spots and things you talk about that people who know more than you would say you don’t have a clue about.
Ignorance is not bianary, it’s a spectrum. And bless us, we are all on there somewhere.
I find having one person that you can make covert eye contact with and make a “Can you believe this shit?” face to helps. A few months ago, two family members were going on some rant against vaccines and giving the always intellectually stimulating “Kids didn’t have this when we were young” argument. A third family member looked like her head was about to explode from the stupid, so that really helped me from completely losing my cool.
My problem isn’t that I just disagree with people on certain things, but I can’t sugarcoat my disdain. I can’t “agree to disagree” when someone is factually incorrect or basing their opinions on superstitions and old wives’ tales. A climate-change denier who uses cherry-picked, but REAL, science to make an argument is less frustrating to me than a hippie talking about how crystals make him/her happier.
So yeah, finding a person that you can kick under the table or send surreptitious eye-roll text really helps. One job I had was filled with horrible people and having one normal person to send off a “Did you hear that?” email to kept me sane.
Thanks for the advice. First thing I’m going to do is check out Michael Shermer. I see he’s done a TED talks.
As far as my own ignorance is concerned, I would LIKE to think I know when to keep my mouth shut. If you read the past threads I’ve started, there are very few that didn’t end with me changing my mind about something, which is why I come here. I RARELY start threads thinking that I have the ultimate answer to something.
I’m really just sick of people who don’t even try to learn, but will hastily argue what they think is right, and won’t HEAR what the other side is saying. They pick their side and defend it like they would their favorite sports team. I’m not a very smart person, but I’ve definitely figured out how to find some of the most reliable people and places for information.
I know your pain. I get so tired of the conspiracy theory nonsense, people getting themselves all worked up about government and politics just to have something to bitch about. The natural parenting, Co - sleeping baby wearing public breastfeeding crunchier-than-thou homeschooling mommies, the antivax loser-doodles.
They are all up in my Facebook. Gun-toting, racist homophobes, anti-Muslim, you name it, it’s in my newsfeed. Truthers, birthers, Chem trails, Holocaust deniers, Barack Hussein Obama, there is really no end to it.
The worst of the worst, unfortunately, are family members. Those are the ones that feel like they can be overt about their BS amongst friends. The ignorance, it burns.
Everything you just said. (Except my family hasn’t any conspiracy theorists in it). But I have a coworker who believes all this and more. She claims Michele Obama is a man!! And that Fema puts colored dots on everyone’s mailbox so they know who to kill first when martial law is declared. It’s the complete lack of logic and the ability to filter out bullshit that frustrates me. She is an otherwise smart person.
I have worked with her for 20 years and many things she has tried to tell us would happen have not come to pass. Does she think we haven’t noticed this? Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!
I have no idea if asking your anti-vax acquaintances to read this op-ed will help in any way, but at least try to have them address this issue:
“Let’s pretend for a moment that the anti-vaxxers are right[URL=“http://cdn2.mommyish.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/10371449_697761130293899_5764131352505303942_n.png”]—that vaccines are linked with autism. Then their repeated exhortations to avoid vaccines suggest that autism is actually a fate worse than death. That autism is the worst thing that could happen to a child—worse even than the suffering and death that can accompany measles, mumps, polio, and diphtheria.”
Really I think this is about What They Don’t Want You to Know type thinking. They’re not thinking as far ahead as the consequences of not having children vaccinated.
I try to think - well, it gets them through the day.
A friend just called me - seems his new relationship is over. The woman calls him to say she’s had to re-aline the crystals in her garden to accommodate his aura. Ha ha - maybe I should start a ‘You know it’s over when …’ thread.
