Personally, I fall into the latter category.
I feel very much alone. I rarely accept what I’m told at face value and I always try to do my research whenever I can. I’m an atheist and defender of science. And yet, I find myself constantly surrounded by ignorance, bigotry, and people fervently defending ideas that are severely flawed. And yet, I’d come across as an asshole trying to correct people.
What are your experiences like? Is it better to go with the flow or stand your ground?
I would say that it can be very isolating. In everyday life, it’s not much of an issue, to be honest.
When it does spring up, say a conversation starts about religion or ghosts or something I can often feel the odd man out.
Well theres a large cohort of atheists/skeptics that do not actually do meaningful research and so believe in various things because their favored apostles support them, say climate change, the big bang theory, string theory, the way things are in faraway places ect, (Not saying which of these I think is wrong or right just that that plenty of atheists/skeptics believe them for non-rational reasons)
However I totally agree. Socializing has nothing to do with logic or delighting in unraveling the nuances of philosophy and the universe. Socializing is a game with many factors, but in modern day western cultures this marks a person as socially inept. A rational person often finds deceit to cause cognitive dissonance so it’s hard to hide your true feelings on subjects and so you wind up with a severe social disadvantage.
Become a liar/manipulator or figure out ways to avoid progressing in such conversation without deceit or accept the disadvantage. It’s not like it’s something you can’t make up for though, especially if you don’t prompt those conversations. Of course you shouldn’t have to play this social calculus but the world is what it is. We are designed for survival, and rationality only helps in survival in our species when you can apply it intermittently based on the context.
I feel smugly superior.
No, but seriously, there’s a big difference between questioning one’s own beliefs and taking pride in using one’s judgment to good ends, and being a judgmental person who looks down on anyone who doesn’t share the same approach to life. Seriously, some people would rather enjoy different facets of life and just don’t care to question every glurgey email that they get. Who knows, a lot of those people could be happier than you are!
If you think your views on matters is making you unhappy, my guess is that the reason probably lies elsewhere, rather than on your approach to science, religion, and the news. Try looking at how you relate to people as an issue in and of itself, rather than blaming your intellectual preferences.
In my particular environment it can be a social impediment. I live in a very conservative area and much of the social life here revolves around church activities or politically conservative causes. Everybody is Facebook and Twitter-happy but the more geeky population tends to be in the cities or the college towns. Not having a venue that really fits my interests and beliefs is isolating, especially at my age of just over 50. (Yes, I like you younger folks just fine, but I don’t think you want me hanging around at your parties.)
Living in America, I have the option to join a church or take a community education class in Psychic Powers :smack: and pretend I belong there, but I’m really no good at acting, so I just stay home and wait for time to pass. Maybe there will be people like me at the Home :D.
The good thing is that I don’t have to attend endless church potluck socials, and feast on 50 different kinds of tuna casserole, pasta salad and raw veggies.
Way to minimize people’s honest problems relating with other people. The majority playing the victim of the “smug intellectual” that they shun is predictable, boring and absurd.
I collect like-minded friends, distance myself from unlike-minded ones, and get on with my life.
I think Ravenman hit the nail on the head. I’m an atheist, skeptical scientist with few friends who are the same, and I get along with them just fine. I don’t talk much about politics with people I disagree with unless they show a genuine interest in debate. Most people, though, are set in their ways, and not open to changing their minds. But that doesn’t make them bad drinking buddies or golf partners.
Your social life does not have to depend on what your worldview is.
What you are doing is preaching your beliefs, very ironically a criticism atheists normally make of religious folk. You are pushing your belief system, and just like you don’t like it, other’s don’t either. Both think they have the truth, both are trying to help, but both are pushing people away.
My suggestion is first don’t assume your way is right or better, just different and where your life has lead you. Also respect where the other’s person’s life had has them at this time.
As such it’s not a question of standing yoru ground or going with the flow, but one of accepting other people’s views as as valid as yours, yours is not better, neither is theirs, but just a factor of being human in a human society.
That great that it works out for you, as I said its not a black and white, it’s one factor of many in social situations, also not every place is the same. I don’t find the OP’s scenario implausible. There are plenty of people that will not rest until they know your feelings on religion. I’ve had bosses, coworkers and peers that all have done this. In some of these circumstances it wasn’t very consequential in others it meant being shunned in an environment I needed to work, and turns out it’s a lot harder to work let alone advance in most places when people think you’re the great Satan. I am perfectly tolerant of other people’s views on religion and whatever else but if they aren’t of mine that’s their failing not mine. If I have to adapt and obfuscate my personal feelings it helps me out but doesn’t make other people any less bigoted.
Why even bother having any viewpoints, opinions or beliefs if you believe that all viewpoints, opinions and beliefs are equally valid?
Well, the fact is we’re all wrong about some things for the wrong reasons and that’s the way it is. Don’t worry about what they’re wrong about, concern yourself with what you are lacking in understanding.
And don’t correct people. That’s just rude and a potential friend/associate will be more valuable than the momentary pleasure of saying “I told you so”.
again, convenient thinking. Christians preach their religion in this way constantly while being shocked and angered by anyone else doing it. “I thank God every day.”, “I’ll pray for you.”, “We just have to act as Jesus would.” “Let us pray.” “I think it’s sad that some people don’t have God in their life.” on and on and on.
It’s just a double standard, which Christians are conveniently blind to. This is what makes most atheists angry, not your beliefs.
There are lonely, isolated people who are in lockstep with everyone in their community, and there are happy, social people who go with the flow and march to their own drummer.
Now, if someone happens to be an outsider in a community that is devoutly of one religion or culture, yeah, I understand that being shunned isn’t the victim’s fault. But I would question why an outsider would choose to live in such a place before I would bemoan the social burden of having a more enlightened view of the world.
Just playing the odds here, if in any community of a reasonable size and diversity one finds himself feeling isolated, I would say the top five or seven or even ten most common reasons for the isolation probably have nothing to do with an individual’s world view. I would first suspect things like the lonely individual being shy, being awkward, being unfriendly, being depressed, being boring, and so on before I would blame his views on science.
Mainly finding out why people believe as they do. What life circumstances caused them to accept a belief or reject it. They have lived a life unique to them and came to conclusions based on circumstances that only they have experienced.
My own belief is we all have a piece of the truth, put together the correct way a much better truth comes about.
That coming together is not through preaching, but from respect & inquiry on both sides. Reflection on what was said and how any of that can be of benefit.
I think my innate skepticism causes social problems even if I never discuss religion/paranormal/alternative medicine type topics.
When a friend or relative says, “Wow! So and so was a real jerk to me and I did nothing to deserve the way they treated me. Blah blah blah . . . .” I always secretly want to know what so and so’s side of the story is even though society demands that I be sympathetic to my friend.
The social group I hang with is somewhat akin to the Straight Dope gang: largely skeptical, rational, leaning atheist, leaning liberal. Fundamentalist Christians are a tiny minority, and have learned not to spout off with their most offensive beliefs. (They don’t get anywhere with homophobic or creationist pronouncements, and so have stopped bothering.)
(Much like the Straight Dope, there’s no censorship. If they want to espouse creationism, they certainly can. But, just like here, if they do, they’ll get rebuttals aplenty…)
So, in my social circles, such views are inclusionary, not exclusionary…
If I were involved in social circles that leaned the other way, then I would learn to keep my views to myself. I’ve known workplaces like that. Shrug. When in Rome…
(…don’t paint yourself blue!)
This is exactly the sort of thing I mean.
Don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of friends. But I feel like I can’t relate to many of them. I want to be unbiased and rigorous and yet I find myself either needing to nod my head in agreement or maintain silence in order to not rock the boat.
For instance, my girlfriend might be complaining to me about her boss, but really, I want to see her boss in action and judge for myself. I don’t know if I can just accept her say-so. Usually I’ll just agree, “Wow, he sounds like an asshole!” but internally I’m not casting any judgment at all whatsoever until I learn more about the situation from the other side.
I attended Harvard, an Ivy, which is full of smart folk, but I can tell you that there’s still a ton of ignorance. Even in normal social conversation there will be times when someone says something that I know is demonstrably false, and yet I’ll shut up about it because pointing it out just comes across as petty and pedantic. Or large swarms of people will push activism in favor of idea X because it’s trendy and not necessarily arrived at through rigorous reasoning, etc.
In the end, it makes me feel lonely. I force myself to put on a mask and get along for the sake of playing the social game, but what I really wish is that I could meet more people who make an effort to be unbiased, intellectually curious, skeptical people who understand a wide variety of topics and know how to resolve their ignorance and how to get good information.
Finding a group of such people that all want to hang out and live close together is going to be tough, the internet gives you the possibility but even groups that pride themselves on open mindedness are often not at all.