Who said anything about going shopping at night? Well, I think Opal mentioned something like it, but the OP didn’t, and I certainly didn’t, although for the record I’d consider it highly questionable in anything short of an emergency situation. Anyway, it’s not a leap from point A to point B if you were never at point A in the first place.
I suppose there might be some possible logical explanation for a DA showing up in court in her pajamas, or in a Jedi knight costume, or completely nude, but I am unable to think of one myself. I’d certainly be willing to listen to one were one offered, but in the absence of one then yes, I’d think mental instability was the likely answer.
Extreme or unusual dress might under some circumstances be a form of social or political commentary (as was likely the case with the OP’s “skirt boy”), but people wishing to make such a statement with their clothing are deliberately trying to provoke shock and so should not be bothered by other people’s reactions unless they actually become threatening or violent. I wouldn’t feel the need to point or laugh at a young man in a skirt, but then again I am not so easily shocked, I would consider it to be bad manners, and I don’t like rewarding such obvious attention-seeking behavior anyway. However, I don’t see any reason to pity people who intentionally dress in a strange, inappropriate, or provocative manner who then receive the sort of reactions that anyone dress in a strange, inappropriate, or provocative manner might reasonably expect. And if the person in question didn’t expect surprised or shocked reactions then I must question their mental health, or at least their understanding of social conventions.
Where do you draw the line? You seem unwilling to admit that it is possible for people to be inappropriately dressed at all.
Sorry for the second post here, but if you reread the first page of this thread you will find that this is not, in fact, my “routine”. Rather I have suggested that the inability to recognize that your personal appearance will have an affect on the way other people perceive you suggests mental illness. It is not inappropriate dress itself that indicates a problem, but the inability to recognize that you are dressed inappropriately, or the failure to understand that inappropriate dress may make a less than favorable impression upon others.
Sorry, it’s still bullshit. The inability to recognize that one is dressed inappropriately and that this may make an unfavorable impression on others is certainly indicative of a rather shocking naivety, or plain ignorance, or poor taste, or an amazing lack of social perception, but calling it suggestive of mental illness is far too strong a statement, Lamia, and as such does indeed constitute bullshit.
Although we are in the Pit I do not want to insult you or your understanding of mental illnesses and disabilities, but I must say that the above indicates to me that this is not a subject you know a lot about. The inability to understand or obey (not a simple unwillingness to obey) social conventions or the inability to understand (not a lack of consideration for) the thoughts and feelings of others are not traits found in developmentally normal adults. Fortunately, these disabilties are rare. Most people who insist upon dressing inappropriately for the occasion or engaging in any other socially inappropriate behavior are merely lazy, inconsiderate, or deliberately attempting to be provocative.
What the OP may not have realized is that questions like “Why are you dressed like that?”, “What are you supposed to be?”, or even “Don’t you know that skirts are for girls?” are not really questions about fashion but rather about social convention. Social convention dictates that certain clothing is appropriate in certain situations. People may choose to violate these conventions, but they must know that many others will be surprised and that some of those surprised people will ask them questions. And believe it or not, this surprise and the questions it inspires can be a good thing in at least two ways that I can think of.
First, it can serve as a wake-up call to someone who hadn’t put enough thought into their behavior to realize that it might be seen as inconsiderate or disrespectful. They can then correct themselves accordingly. Secondly, in cases where a person has put thought into their unconventional behavior, it gives them a chance to explain themselves. With luck, this will be educational and enlightening for the questioner, and may even help to make questioners begin turning their questions towards certain social conventions rather than those who violate them.
Oh, I’ll agree with you in general (not, as you noted, that I know a lot about mental illnesses, but what you say does mesh with my understanding), but I am not under the impression that not understanding the full social conventions on clothing qualifies as a mental illness by itself.
Let me clarify: your claim was, as best as I understood it, “the inability to recognize that you are dressed inappropriately, or the failure to understand that inappropriate dress may make a less than favorable impression” is suggestive of mental illness. I find it a little outlandish to suggest that someone who doesn’t realize that, for example, one doesn’t show up to job interviews in shorts and a t-shirt is mentally ill. Is Bob mentally ill because he likes to wear orange and purple together and isn’t aware that other people will think this is a little odd? To give an even more obvious example, one supposes that different cultures dress differently in different situations; if a person brought up in culture A dresses in a way that’s inappropriate in culture B, where he or she now lives, is that person mentally ill?
What I’m trying to say is that it looks to me like you’re casting your net too widely. Even within a given society, there are many different styles of dress, and it does not seem at all unreasonable that developmentally normal people won’t always be aware of the standards of dress in any particular circumstance.
There are times, to be sure, when it should be painfully obvious that one is not dressed appropriately (if, for example, a person were to wear sweats in an office where everyone else wears suits, that person ought to notice something), but there are also times when this if far from clear.
El Gui mentioned the year 1992. That was when I heard about a retirement home somewhere in Pennsylvania that wanted to prohibit shorts for the male residents. I thought that was extremely crummy. Retirees in the early '90s would have been born in the late '20s or earlier. So these men probably had to wear first school uniforms, then military uniforms, then the corporate uniform or a work uniform. Finally, they retire, thinking they can bloody well wear what they want, only to be given another damn dress code.
Fuck that! The article I read had a full-length photo of one of the men who objected to the ban. Well, he wasn’t any Mel Gibson, but the sight of him didn’t put me off my next meal. Face it: few people look like a million bucks when they get to retirement age. But it’s unfair, for reasons of comfort if nothing else, to insist that someone wear long pants in the summer in what is, after all, their home. Again I say, if you can’t wear what you want, within reason (and this was within reason), after you’ve retired, then that just sucks donkey dick.
I’d wait to hear what she had to say before I formed an opinion. Her opening statement might be, “Ladies and gentlemen of the court, this is how the victim was dressed when she was kidnapped, in Grand Rapids, MI, in February, and taken to a remote cabin…”
Good point there. If people want to criticize what someone wears, they usually exaggerate and use phrases like “prancing around”, or “swishing around”, or, as in your example “parading around”.
In my case, I’ve certainly never had the urge to put on a skirt, but shorts are a definite sore spot with me. It seems these days if you’re male, your so called shorts have to have yards and yards of material billowing all around your thighs and down past your knees. It’s stupid, but that’s what the guys in the NBA, and virtually every male teen want to wear, so that’s all any of the rest of us can find. Another example of the “social convention” mentioned above.
Oh yeah, another weird little fashion thing I’ve heard mentioned here is the objection to pleats on men’s pants. As long as the pants are correctly fitted, allowing the pleats to hang in a relaxed manner, I simply don’t see what’s wrong with them. But then I’m coming to realize more and more that I’m totally clueless about these things.
Rilchiam, I know you didn’t mean it in a humorous manner, but your post cracked me up.
Back a million years ago when I was 15 years old I worked as a volunteer at a local nursing home. The staff DID have to ban a certain old guy from wearing his shorts. They were REEEEEEEEEEEEALY short and REEEEEEEEEEEEEEALY loose and his REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALY shriveled pecker stuck out of the bottom.
If this wasn’t bad enough, one old lady used to stare at it and try to touch it.
It was in the best interest for everyone that they hid those shorts. Really.
In all seriousness, it’s fairly clear that you’re not exaggerating or embellishing what you saw. But exaggeration does occur in other cases very frequently when someone wants to disapprove of the way someone dresses, or wears their hair, or whatever. This really dates me, but I’m from the generation that had to fight with our parents over hair length, and I can remember how how conservatives would often rail against long filthy hair, even though there was no reason to assume that a man’s hair was filthy just because it was long.
Today if a man goes out in shorts that are short, but still completely decent, I’m sure that some people out there are going to think he’s skipping or prancing, when he’s not, or that his equipment or a$$ are hanging out, when they’re not. It’s just so, I don’t know…intolerant. Frankly speaking I’m always a bit relieved when summer ends and the hot weather goes away, and this ceases to be a personal issue for me.
Originally posted by ultress
And for the ladies that already have an SO, don’t be shocked or surprised if you fail to take care of yourself, if that SO doesn’t find himself another little lady to play with. Use all the excuses you want, it will happen.
Well, then, fuck the motherfucker, because it is his problem, for being a spoiled git. I have said several times on this board how difficult it is to find decent clothes, and i am ensemblelly challenged.
I make an effort, own some make-up, and have dyed my hair, it is butterscotch coloured. If you ditch me because of my clothing choices, well then, fuck off and die. Choke on the bile, dickhead, because i will not let your fuckwittage get to me.
Great example. This goes along with the point that I’ve been sort of poorly trying to make that dressing oddly or whatever != not taking care of yourself.
I didn’t have time to read all the posts, but I just want to say I support the OS.
It’s ridiculous people care so much about this crap. However anyone that makes fun of another for what they choose to wear should be disregarded. Unfortunately prejudice is contagious, and a person can feel really isolated if they don’t search for something else to wear.
When I was in 7th grade, two 8th grade guys would attempt to rip my ass to shreds for wearing dockers. There was no other reason, they just came up to me and said; ‘look at this kids pants’, and started pushing me around. They did it all the time, until I gave in and wore jeans. They wouldn’t have picked me out of a crowd if it weren’t for the pants I wore. Of course… it effected my whole 7th grade life… people saw me get my ass kicked, it doesn’t help your reputation. In 8th grade, my whole class went to visit the high school we were about to tend in 9th grade… I saw the two same FUCKS wearing dockers. All of these narrow minded dickheads fucked up my life. Age doesn’t matter, there are still assholes out there. There are a lot of assholes on these board… (NO, NO, NO… Don’t worry, I’m not talking about ‘YOU’, insert-your-name-here).
In a world as judgmental as ours, it’s no wonder there are kids who resort to violence. I’m not saying it’s all because these kids get made fun of for what we wear; but what we wear is a part of our personally. Your told, as a kid, to ignore what everyone says… well, that can be pretty lonely. When it’s you against the world you feel very poweless. Of course this is no excuse for violence unless it’s self deffence.
I know, I’m starting to go all over the place with this… I need some zzz’s. I did want to post here before I forgot. I think you know what I’m trying to say.
Why has what WAS considered “appropriate”, not “appropriate” now?
Just because some people consider a way of dress as being “appropriate”, doesn’t mean everyone should. As long as your clean, safe, and not wearing anything that is insulting anyone… (like a shirt that says something insulting).
I mean, realistically… you probably wont get the job if you’re at an interview with dressed a certain way. It doesn’t mean that you’re wrong for dressing that way. Perhaps you should have gotten the job.
You’re so right. They make it impossible for you to have friends; then, picking on you is justified because you have no friends and must therefore deserve it.
I got a sudden insight into necktie mania during the last job (in a law firm) where I had to wear a tie.
I was leaning over to check something at the back of my computer, and my tie fell onto the computer. So what? Well, if I had been a machinist in a factory, and my necktie fell into the mechanism like that, I would have been a dead man instantly.
I realized how this is nothing but a badge of class, to prove that you don’t have to do manual labor for a living. Exactly the same idea as Chinese aristocrats in the old days, who grew their fingernails extra long to make their hands useless, to set them above the common rabble. I’m fed up with this classist snobbery bullshit. That’s all neckties are. I expect to never wear one again. I’m just waiting for the day when a president of the United States will go to work without a tie, and kill the damned thing off forever, as President Kennedy did for the hat.
I think you’re wrong about there being “no other reason”. They may have made fun of your choice of trousers but I don’t believe that they truly made fun of you because of your choice of trousers. I think there was another reason, and that reason was very likely that these guys were just miserable little monsters who were looking to inflict pain on another person. Making fun of your clothing was just a way to achieve that end.
I wouldn’t normally look to drag this thread out any longer, but I would hate for anyone to get the idea that I support, condone, or excuse the sort of behavior that MyFootsZZZ described. Such things should be sickening to any decent person. However, this did not seem to be the sort of thing the OP was complaining about. Although I may have misunderstood her, it looked like a complaint about people questioning others who have made unusual or inappropriate dress decisions.
Now, I personally think it is rude to make any comment at all to a strangers about their clothing, and that critical remarks should be reserved only for those you have a very close personal relationship with. However, people do notice and wonder about things that are different from the norm, so I think anyone who chooses to dress in a way that is noticeably “different” (something I am all for, by the way) is to some extent inviting questions. They have no reason to be offended by these questions unless they are particularly rude or hostile.
One of my ex-girlfriends had a fabulous wardrobe of vintage and historic replica dresses that she dressed in almost daily. I thought this was great, in fact, it was one of the things that attracted me to her in the first place. But something about her that was very unattractive was that she could not stand for people to question or comment on her clothes. I never knew anyone at our college to be rude about it or make fun of her, but people did ask what I think were pretty innocent and reasonable questions like “Are you dressed up for something today?”, “Where did you get that outfit?”, or “Why do you always wear these old-fashioned clothes?” She hated this. I could never understand it. She went to a huge amount of trouble collecting or making these clothes and openly acknowledged that she dressed in a way that was very different from anyone else, yet she thought that no one else should ever say anything about it! That’s crazy.
People are naturally curious about things that are different. Depending on the circumstances they might also find such things humorous or upsetting. You can’t expect this not to happen. You can expect that you will not be treated cruelly just for being different (although it is a sad truth that many people will disappoint you in this), but you can’t expect to go unnoticed. You can’t even expect not to be laughed at sometimes. To anyone who can’t handle that I say that something needs changing, and it’s not your clothes. It’s your attitude and your self-image.
