In all fairness, 50% of the vehicles I see on my commute are not Lamborghinis. I don’t even see that many Ferrari’s round these parts.
And I’ve yet to see a Lamborghini driver speeding in the snow.
Yes because SUVs are more affordable and get better gas mileage. 
I bet if you ever do you’ll see his insurance agent running after him yelling, “slow down!”
Sigh.
Okay, in an effort to dispel some ignorance (and frankly, the more enlightened already know most of this):
It’s impossible to derive personality traits or overall driving ability of a person from the type of vehicle they drive.
Rubystreak (and others who are on this patriotism kick): In 2000 (the last year for which I could find data), the U.S. imported 12.6 percent of all the oil it used from the Persian Gulf states, which are defined as Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. As noted earlier, none of this was from Iraq, due to the oil embargo the U.S. placed on that country. The U.S. produced about half of all the oil it consumed in 2000 (roughly 48 percent). That information is from the U.S. Department of Energy, as cited here.
So, to carry your “patriotism” schtick to its logical conclusion, you’re four times more likely to be patriotic and support American industry than a supporter of terrorism if you burn a lot of gas.
Thanks for the numbers, I had a hunch that was the case.
Here’s some numbers from 2002:
http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw246supp.shtml
Some other numbers - the US actually currently imports a total of 25% of it’s oil from the persian gulf, and that figure has grown each year:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/pgulf.html
That also includes Iraq.
As for current estimates of world reserves:
http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw201.shtml
#1 Saudi Arabia, #2 Iraq.
Here’s an opinion piece (from the Guardian, UK) that discusses how far behind the US is falling in pursuing renewable sources:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4520989,00.html
I have no beef with SUV drivers. Especially if you live in Alaska and tow three tons of lumber up a mountain every day. I have no desire to take the choice of the individual who wishes to buy an SUV away. I don’t think that the current US automobile consumption pattern can go on for ever though.
I do think that making the choice to buy an SUV to commute and buy groceries in says something negative about the person buying the vehicle.
TWO out of the top TEN countries are middle eastern, dear god stop the presses!
Fwiw, my only beef here is with stereotyping people, which last time I checked, SUV drivers were composed of.
keithnmick: One minor correction – the Persian Gulf accounted for 25 percent of the U.S. net oil imports in 2001. In other words, one out of every four barrels of oil we imported came from the Persian Gulf. It actually accounted for about 14 percent of overall U.S. oil demand (up 1.4 percent from the figure I quoted for 2000, earlier). In other words, 1.4 out of every ten barrels of oil we actually used came from the Persian Gulf.
That import figure has not grown each year; in fact, the chart on the page you linked shows a significant decrease in imports from the Persian Gulf throughout the early 1990s, and a smaller decrease in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
However, I was patently wrong on one point – Iraq is exporting oil to the U.S. I thought the embargo was still in place, but obviously I was wrong.
I tend to agree with this basic critique, with the “offroad” proviso, etc. And, of course, the huge gas hog behemoutes are the most dangerous to the driver and to others.
I think the gas argument sometimes does not register to SUV owners because they think that the EPA fuel regulations apply to their trucks as they do to cars. Of course, “light” trucks (nothing light about them) do not have to meet the same mileage standards.
To determine your relative patriotism vis-a-vis fuel consumption, I have proposed the following mathematical formula. :dubious:
This test takes into account your mileage and MPG thus determining whether you are with us or with the terrorists.
Step 1: Determine miles driven per year (MDY).
(example, MDY = 10, 000)
Step 2: Divide MDY by your average observed fuel economy in combined driving (AOFE) . Be honest, your Excursion gets about 10 MPG.
(example, AOFE = 20)
Step 3: Determine your relative patriotism and worth as a human being (RPWHB).
(example = 500)
Example one is my RPWHB, or thereabouts. I would imagine that it is better than lots of people, yet worse than plenty also. My combined MPG might be as high as 23, but that is not a round number.
Example 2, someone who drives 30,000 miles a year and makes only 10 MPG in combined driving: MDY = 30,000 divided by AOFE = 10, yields a RPWWHB of 3000. VERY BAD.
This is like bad karma or a golf score, lower is better.
Interesting idea, Beagle, but for minds that can’t handle all that fancy arithmetic, here’s a simplified version to separate out Good and Bad.
If your vehicle gets at least 20 mpg in city driving, you are by definition a Good American and get all the appropriate privileges and discounts.
Under 20 mpg city, and you are Marked For Death.
We go to the official EPA website to get our mileage statistics - the site especially chosen to cause maximum eyestrain.
If you drive any one of these, your time has come (see above for complete list of proscribed vehicles):
Ford Explorer (SUV)
GMC Jimmy (SUV)
Buick Park Avenue (car)
BMW 540i (car)
Kia Sedona (minivan)
Lexus IS300 (car)
BMW 330xi (car)
Oldsmobile Aurora (car)
Mercedes C240 (car)
Chrysler Town and Country (minivan)
Ford Windstar (minivan)
Volvo S60 (car)
Cadillac Escalade (SUV)
Ferrari 456 (car)
Dodge Ram 1500 (pickup)
Chevy Silverado (pickup)
GMC Sonoma (pickup)
All of you are doomed.
Among the happy, patriotic and privileged Americans are those who drive the following:
Hyundai Santa Fe (SUV)
Mazda Tribute (SUV)
Honda Civic hybrid (car). Drivers also eligible for sainthood.
Toyota RAV4 (SUV)
Porsche Boxster (car)
Audi TT (car)
Mazda Miata (car)
Mitsubishi Eclipse (car, easily recognizable by passenger making weird arm motions).
I hope we have all this straight now. Those of you who don’t make the grade, please report immediately to the nearest government dematerialization office.
Thank you.
Well, it’s good to see the legal system is working.
Do you mean Lamborghini? Yeah, the mileage on them is obscene. I’d like to see some numbers on the number of Lamborghinis on U.S. roads vs. SUVs.
And while mileage is an issue with SUVs, it is far from my only issue.
I am not on a patriotism kick, though I am patriotic. I don’t think I need to put a flag on my car to prove it, though. Many people do, so they bought those stupid flags (made in China) and put them on their cars to show how Yankee Doodle Dandy they were. My point is: having a flag on your car doesn’t make you a patriot. Having a flag on your car doesn’t improve you MPGs either. If you really wanted to wave the flag, take the bus to work. It’s really easy to attach that flag and change nothing about the way you live, right?
According to the US Dept of Energy, America imports 50% of its fuel. Domestic oil resources are finite and will run out; why do you think Bush was so hot to drill in Alaska? The Middle East has the vast majority of the world’s oil reserves (65-75%), so once we use what we have, we’ll have to fall to the tender mercies of OPEC, and I don’t know about you, but I remember the gas rationing during the Carter presidency…
Don’t believe me? Check my source:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/oildep.shtml
But hey, fuck it! You like your goddam SUV. It’s mileage is way better than a Lamborghini! That and a plastic flag makes you all Dandy.
Right.
You should kiss my feet puckyboy for behold! I AM THE ULTIMATE PATRIOT! Years ago I had a license, however I didn’t renew it when it expired! I have no use for a vehicle, because, I, Ultimate Patriot use only pulic transportation!
**
When come back, please bring rant.
**
And your ignorance may be an issue, but it’s far from…
Well at least tell me you take the bus to work, so I can have some granule of respect for you.
I’d like to get my two cents in, but my ass still hurts from the two dimes.
Check out this website:
www.greenercars.org
Their pick for the worst vehicles?
DODGE RAM PICKUP 2500
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN K2500
GMC YUKON XL K2500
CADILLAC ESCALADE / GMC YUKON DENALI
FORD EXCURSION
LAMBORGHINI L-147 MURCIELAGO
GMC SIERRA K2500 / CHEVROLET SILVERADO K2500
MERCEDES-BENZ G500
DODGE RAM WAGON
LEXUS LX 470 / TOYOTA LAND CRUISER
CHEVROLET AVALANCHE
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR
of course this means bad for the environment, not bad for giving Osama Bin Laden extra Stinger money.
Rubystreak: Go back and look at the info from the Department of Energy. The U.S. imports more oil from Canada than from any other country. In fact, the U.S. imports nearly as much oil from Canada as it does from Saudi Arabia and Iraq combined (1,895,000 barrels per day for Canada versus 2,030,000 barrels per day for Saudi Arabia and Iraq). When you add in our other North American neighbor, Mexico, you get 3,396,000 barrels of oil per day coming from our two closest neighbors – 30 percent of our total imports.
Do we need to reduce our dependence on petroleum-based energy sources? Sure. But logic dictates that if U.S. demand causes us to import more oil, it would come from those areas where we already import the most now – such as Canada or Mexico. Last I checked, those two countries weren’t hotbeds of terrorism.
(Actually, logic and history would dictate that if OPEC attempted another squeeze play on the U.S., as they did in the mid- to late-70s, the U.S. would respond by becoming more fuel-efficient. On the site cited by keithnmick, note the rapid decline of oil imports from the Persian Gulf beginning in the 1980s. By 1985, the U.S. was importing approximately seven percent of its oil from the Gulf region, down from a high of 28 percent in 1977.)
Final point – my wife put two flag decals on the bumper of her car. She bought them from a local company run by a disabled American veteran. The decals had “Made in America” logos on them. However, for the purposes of your prejudice, please assume this somehow impugns her patriotism.
Talking to you idiots is like screaming at a brick wall. Nobody is saying that SUVs are the zenith of fuel efficiency, in fact I would say we are all well aware of how wasteful they can be. I’m not arguing that, so stop throwing stupid statistics at me, that are off topic.
The problem here is that you are judging a person by what type of vehicle they drive. Some people need SUVs and some don’t. Since you can’t possibly know which category someone falls into, unless you personally know them, I would say it’s best to shut the fuck up, and not judge anyone. Please tell me how this is any different from judging someone on the color of his or her skin.
I don’t think anyone needs an SUV any more than they need a brick in the face that also steals their wallet. Unless you mean “need” in the same way that a teenager says he “needs” that new video game console. You can get vehicles that perform better than most SUVs that are cheaper than most SUVs.