Dear Tom Cruise, suck my sac

The BBQ Pit
21

Egads. I live in a cave. Have no cable. And usually ignore popular culture. And I know about this. Wow. I’m actually more on the ball than someone else. What a shock. :smiley:

Here’s a link to the thread in Cafe Society where I first read about Tom Cruise beginning to fight the Co$'s fight against psychology and especially anti-depressants in public.

Further idiocy from Mr. Cruise here.

And, basically, anyone who’s grateful for the effect of modern medications on their mental health is furious that this bozo is talking like he’s got a fucking clue.

22

No. As I understand it, he pays them for the privelege of pimping Co$. (As does Kirstie Alley.)

23

I’ve been boycotting this douchebag’s stuff since shortly after Risky when his head started to swell uncontrollably. Now he’s provided others with an equal impetus to do the same. Anyone care to join us? Seriously, just quit going to his shows. I’m amazed anyone can anyone stand to watch him considering what he’s done and said in his all too projected personal life.

24

On the one hand, I’m sympathetic to many arguments made against psychology and psychiatry. Compared to non-psych medicine I think psych practice involves a lot more intuition, guesswork, and trial-and-error. We still don’t know what causes most psychiatric conditions (“chemical imbalance”? :rolleyes: ), the best way to cure them, etc. I don’t think it’s come nearly as far as other areas of medicine. Plus, psychiatry has a long and many would say continuing pattern of abuse against many of those whom it’s supposed to help.

So I can certainly see where the anti-psych crowd is coming from.

On the other hand, if psychiatry is the problem, then scientology is NOT the fucking solution. Scientology takes all the problems that psychiatry has and exagerates them to an absurd degree: Psychology may not be an exact science, but (nowadays…) it’s not ALL made-up bullshit; there are aspects of psychiatry that are exploitative and even abusive, but the whole point of $cientology seems to be to exploit.

25

First of all, I agree with everything you said. Expecting people to just take some vitamins and get over it is totally unrealistic. I’ve lost all respect for Tom, which really upsets me because I really liked him until a few weeks ago when he suddenly became an expert on psychological disorders (or lack thereof) and started bashing on Brooke Shields.

Thought this was interesting:

Yes, in fact, it does. Wellbutrin is also marketed under the name of Zyban, the quitting smoking aid. I’m on it now. It’s helped me cut back from about a pack a day to under half a pack in about two weeks. Hope to quit completely within the next month.

26

I understand that you’re not claiming that Co$ is an improvement, Metacom.

But considering this is a pitting for Tom Cruise and his attacking people on psychoactive ‘addictors’ instead of getting right with vitamins, I don’t think this is really the forum to discuss the real historical problems with psychiatry, and the real continuing problems. None of your accurate indictments against psychiatry has anything to do with whether or not Tom Cruise is a tool, fool, and jerk.

27

Sure they do, because they provide a rationalization for his behaviour. If someone’s being pitted (partially) because they hate something, whether that hatred is rational is entirely on-topic.

28

But there IS evidence that some psych disorders are indeed the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Depression is linked to a lack of serotonin, for example.

Mania (bipolar, actually) is successfully treated with lithium.

I would hazard a guess that we humans need more than just a “chemical” in order to feel “well” again because we are complex creatures.

Tommy is (I think) referring to psychiatry from the 1950’s, when most everything was blamed on poor mothering (not fathering) etc. He is as uninformed as he is obnoxious.

Certainly abuses happen in psychiatric care–as they do in any branch of medicine and in life. Our funding of mental health studies and care in this country is appalling–there is still such a stigma to it all. Despite that, psychiatry and psychology do indeed work to improve people’s wellness and general health-not just mental health.

Frankly, I now consider TC a troll and refuse to feed him anymore. I loved Rainman and Jerry McGuire and Risky Business. But no more TC movies for me.

29

But, but… you don’t know the history of psychiatry… Tom Cruise does! :rolleyes:

(Anyone else amused by the fact that he has picked a 26 year old self-professed virgin to serve as his beard?)

30

As a porn consumer of the 80s and 90s I was always amused that Tommy made IT but Ryan Idol, who tells stories of seeing Tommy on casting calls (and hearing about Tommy on casting couches), didn’t. Prettier than Tommy or Matt.

31

Yes, but I don’t believe that his hatred is rational. Simply because he’s correct in repeating that there have been abuses in the history of psychiatry doesn’t mean that he has any understanding of the situation then, or now.

As an example, I can speak out against the evils of, say, Saddam Hussein’s reign in Iraq as having been a human rights nightmare. Which is true. But if I start saying that it’s because he was using the heads of dissidents to play polo with, I’d be a fool, even if I could point to at least one general of that area who did that. (If not during Hussein’s reign.)

Allow me to show you some of the alleged reasoning that Mr. Cruise is using.

Here’s a quote from his Today appearance, taken from this site:

First off, while ECT (shock therapy) has been terribly abused in the past, that doesn’t change that it is still a useful treatment technique today. If Mr. Cruise had any knowledge, rather than regurgitating what he’d been told by Co$, he’d know it’s still being used, and used effectively. (IIRC for schizophrenia, but I’m not sure of that. I just knew I was shocked when I’d met a patient who was looking forward to her ECT sessions.)

Secondly, because a drug can be abused for a high doesn’t mean that it has no theraputic value. If that were the case, we’d best get rid of Nitrous Oxide, most painkillers, and all sorts of other medications.

If this is the best sort of indictment that Mr. Cruise can level against modern psychiatric medications and treatments - he’s a tool. He’s a fool, and an idiot.

32

Neither of the examples you gave demonstrate that a psych disorder is the result of a chemical imbalance; merely that brain chemistry may be altered when mental illness is present.

Amen.

33

Hey, I am familiar with Mr Cruise’s work. But I consider ignorance of his empty-headed pronouncements something worth taking pride in . :cool:

But never let it be said I stood in the way of the Co$ & Cruise getting a good pitting. Please carry on…

34

“Understandable” may have been a better word.

He mentioned involuntary ECT treatments–I consider that a current abuse.

While Ritalin was a bad example to use of drugs with unknown side effects being given to children, it IS a big problem.

SSRI’s (Zoloft, Paxil, etc.) have been linked to violent and suicidal behaviour in adolescents. Drug companies supressed studies that demonstrated this, to the detriment of their patients.

Effexor, a non-SSRI antidepressent, was prescribed to children and adolescents. Studies have shown that (in children but not adults) it was inneffective and increased the risk of suicide and violent behaviour.

Serzone, another non-SSRI antidepressent, was prescribed to children (again without being established as effective) and linked to a higher incidence of suicide. It was withdrawn from the US and other markets because it caused liver damage.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that have happened recently.

Perhaps. But if he, or someone close to him, was a victim of psychiatric abuse I could forgive him.

35

That’s better, thanks. :slight_smile:

I am not going to defend the practice of ECT as it was used until about the 1970’s. Very often it was used as a punishment for acting up. Certainly it was the forerunner of the modern psychiatry’s method of trying different medications* to see which might treat a patient’s difficulties: Nothing else is working, so let’s zap the patient and see if that helps. :mad:

And it does have the potential to be used that way, now, too.

Having said that, I’m not sure that I can issue a blanket condemnation for involuntary ECT. It has a terrible potential for abuse, no question there. But, unlike most other conditions where the patient has the potential to be educated to understand the risks associated with a given treatment, many patients being kept in for involuntary treatment are not in a position to make any kind of rational decision. I do not, personally, know enough about ECT to say whether it is or is not an effective technique for patients who are so far around the bend they can’t give informed consent. Personally, I suspect that there is no one short of an RN with a psychiatric specialization who could. As I’ve said before, while I’m a mental health consumer (God, what a stupid term.) that isn’t a treatment that’s ever been considered for my condition.

Remember, it’s just as much a violation of a patient’s right to informed treatment to be given any medication or treatment without consent - but there are people who do need treatments who cannot, or in some cases, will not consent. And I’m not going to say that all involuntary treatment is immoral.

If he’d mentioned something like this as his basis for his views that would be one thing, I’d be more willing to give him some BOD, now. However all I’ve see is a life-long distrust of psychiatry. Personally, I simply suspect that his is just more of the same distrust for anything involving mental health issues that most of the public has, watered by the paranoia of the Co$.

Which is part of why I’ve got time, now to debate this with you, since I can’t get a fucking job to save my life. So, I’ll admit I’m not in the best of places to be particularly understanding with this twit. :frowning:
*I’m not actually criticizing the modern method of trying different medications to see which might work here, though I’m not particularly impresed by it. Considering how poorly the link between chemical imbalances in the brain and mental illness is understood, and the fact that many times the irregularities that can be measured in the brain are only detectable with destructive analysis - post-mortem histiological analysis, AIUI, I don’t say it’s the wrong way to go about the business, but it’s not exactly fun, yet, to be a guinuea pig.

What too few patients realize is that they should be going back to their doctors if they don’t like the side effects they’re exseriencing, or if it’s not working the way they were hoping it would. Which is a failure of both the patients and the doctors.

Like I said, I can see, and offer, a lot of legitimate criticisms of modern psychiatry. I’m not willing to admit that Tom Cruise is in any position to speak about 'em, however.

36

Metacom-the problems with SSRIs you mention are primarily mistakes by the FDA and the pharmaceutical industries.

ECT is used primarily for depression, psychotic depression, and post-partum psychosis not schizophrenia. It is used when EVERYTHING else has been tried. If used on people against their will (incredibly uncommon) it will, in all likelihood, be because the patient is suicidal. So the choice in those cases is usually between ECT or waiting for them to kill themselves.

ECT isn’t like it’s depicted in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” either. It is administered under a light general anaesthetic (administered via IV injection), the patient jerks once or twice, and they’re wheeled into recovery. The side effect is short term memory loss, which usually just means that the person isn’t too clear on the few hours before the treatment. It’s safe, effective and there are many people who are alive today because of it.
It is incorrect to assume that because the Co$ is against “psych” it hasn’t got anything to replace it. At the heart of Scientology is a form of “talking therapy”, based on a flawed understanding of regression therapy. Instead of giving you tools to help solve your current problems, or to lay old demons to rest, Scientology encourages you to go over and over old trauma.

You dredge the same thing up over and over again, continually raking over old wounds. Instead of helping you to deal with this, it means that you’re NEVER actually allowed to get over it. Instead of focusing on how the event has changed you and what you can do about any negative changes, you’re simply encouraged to re-experience the emotions you felt at the time of the trauma.

Not helpful would be a gross-understatement.

That kind of “therapy” plus a vulnerable person who had suffered a past traumatic event (rape, domestic abuse, physical assault, a serious car-crash) could quite easily lead to PTSD, anxiety, depression or suicidal thoughts. THAT is abuse.

37

My problem with ECT isn’t that it’s risky but that it causes brain damage. I don’t think we should be using a therapy that causes permanent brain damage without informed consent (I could see an exception if the therapy actually cured the condition, or did minimal damage and it would enable the patient could give informed consent early in the course of the treatment, but I don’t believe either of those apply to ECT).

Agreed.

38

And so does Nancy Cartwright(the voice of Bart Simpson).

I was very disappointed to find that out.

I think less of someone when I find out their affiliated with this scary ass cult.

At least on this board, I doubt I’m alone.

39

Short term memory loss is a side effect. There are more, some of which are permanent.

I agree, which is why I condemned scientology in my first post in this thread.

40

…is that Cruise, simpleminded as he obviously is, is nevertheless aware enough to notice trends in the culture. One big one, in these conservative times, is that people are under more and more pressure from their leaders and the media not to think for themselves.

As a devout Shmientologist (a belief system founded on credulousness) and even more devout attention hound, Cruise very probably found the recent engagement limelight to be an ideal opportunity to win over a few more of the gullible media-consumers, if not to Shmientology, at least to some of its stated objectives. Or at the very least, to create a vague unease that one cannot speak one’s conscience these days without Important People jumping on one’s ass, repeating “Matt, Matt, Matt…”.