You’ve been posting here long enough to know that even something posted in MPSIMS will be discussed. If you need a place where you can post things without them being disagreed with or analyzed, that’s why God invented LiveJournal.
If you post an awful video and call it “pretty amazing”, you’re going to get folks disagreeing with you.
Yeah, there wasn’t any of that either.
To be fair, there was some–people implied that these guys were rapists, or that someone was holding a gun to their heads. That was hyperbolic silliness, no question.
I think it’s somewhat disingenuous to call that distortion or misrepresentation though. People also talked about them being cult members and/or waiting for the spaceship riding the comet’s tail. Those bits were pretty obviously just riffing off the whole “boy is this creepy” vibe that the guys in the video give off.
IIRC though, Stoid’s objections to things as untruths were when people pointed out what actual claims, both explicit and tacit, were being made in the video/manifesto.
Fair enough, although the word “inaccurate” is almost like “disingenuous” only not quite as insulting :).
I sent this video to my girlfriend with no more than a “what do you think of this” note.
She is big on women’s rights and female empowerment.
Her first response back to me was (and I quote), “WTF?”
She sent a second mail to me where she opined this is really creepy and the guys evoked a cult-like feeling (hence the creepiness).
When having dinner with her tonight we talked about this. Where I felt bad was what they were espousing was a good thing so not easy to argue against. We both agreed they were so creepy about it any good message they were on about was lost.
I didn’t say anything about not wanting or expecting disagreement. In fact, I anticipated the reaction with perfect accuracy:
Disagree, discuss, dismiss, denigrate, deride, delight, dissect, define… anything you like is perfectly fine with me.
But If I personally had a hankering to go toe-to-toe over the issues, I would have posted it in Great Debates. Apart from the issue of misrepresentation, my reactions have been mostly like so:
Making both my acceptance of opposing opinion as well as my disinterest in debating it pretty clear.
I certainly hope so, since I stated exactly why: not interested in debating this to begin with.
“chicken” taunts don’t really have much of an effect on me.I think it’s mostly a guy thing that chicks don’t really respond to. 
I disagree. Equality and an end to sexism is a good thing, but their core argument suffered from the same flaws that many university programs have: Victims’ Studies, us vs. them mentality, broad brushing, groupthing, etc…
“Women are individuals and deserve to be treated on an individual basis rather than as representatives of an amorphous stereotype” is good.
“Women are intuitive, emotional Earth Mothers and men have to apologize for all the bad stuff other men have ever done, and they’re also rational, angry, goal-oriented badguys, unless they can apologize” is not so much.
So, yeah, you dropped off an OP knowing that it would cause disagreement and debate, but having no inclination to actually take part in that. That’s not making it much better.
He was saying that you haven’t really backed up your love of this video, or tried to give others a reason why you think it’s so awesome (ya know, participated in a discussion about it) because you can’t, since you’ve got nothin’. Turning this into something about being “chicken” with a flippant gender-based joke doesn’t do anything to debunk Lefty’s claim.
What’s so complicated about why she likes this video? She wanted an apology from men and she got one. Finally.
Too bad it didn’t come from that jerky guy who jerked her around, but you takes what you can gets.
ENOUGH with the personal shots.
If you want to talk about the video, feel free. If you just want to make snide remarks about stoid, open a BBQ Pit thread.
[ /Moderating ]
Making what much better?
And as you can see, I did not anticipate so much in the way of disagreement and debate, I anticipated mockery. And mockery does not call for a response.
“backed up”? Are you of the mistaken belief that we are all under some obligation to justify our every thought, opinion, feeling? I need to “back up” my reasons for liking it? No, I don’t believe so.
Having said that, I did:
Post #1 I am moved by it, …I feel it, accept it, and appreciate it.
Post # 208 it is open, positive, embracing, and no matter how gooey or new agey or imperfect it may be, it’s coming from a very good place, and I respect the intention in it and the spirit in which it’s offered.
Post #194 Maybe it’s our age (says the early 50’s white woman). We’re relics from the era of peace, love and understanding, man…
Post # 62 I responded to the core sentiment behind all of it, which is rarely seen or heard
Yes. This is a discussion board. We discuss things here.
It’s hardly unreasonable or a request that your every “thought, opinion, and feeling”, for someone to ask that you support why you think a video you’ve offered is “pretty amazing”.
But since Lefty seems to be right and it looks like you aint got nuthin’, I don’t see a point behind trying to debate the issue with you.
Umm, what personal shots? I’m merely saying that the only reason a women would like this video is if they felt that men owe women an apology*, and if they are so interested in such a blanket apology they are probably more interested in a specific apology even if they don’t want to admit it. It’s not personal in that I would say the same to anyone.
*Stoid says she doesn’t like any of the new agey crap, just the gist of it. ie the “sorry for being jerks” part.
B is not a response to A. B is a response to something like “You expect to talk about it?”
I have no obligation to “backup” why I liked it, but I did state why, several times.
Nor did I say it was (although the use of the word “support” takes it dangerously close to the realm of argument and debate…) I said assuming that I have an obligation to justify or otherwise “back up” my reasons for liking it was not reasonable, and it isn’t.
How nice to see you finally arrive at this after being told several times, and shown via my overall response, that I do not desire or intend to debate it.
This thread does not belong here.
I think we are on the same page.
Respecting women is a good thing (for my part I say to hell with respecting women in particular but rather just have respect for your fellow human beings regardless of their sex). Not sure who could argue against that.
The way these goofs go about it though is terrible. After discussing it with my GF tonight I have decided (for myself) the discomfort stems from feeling they are distinctly like a cult.
Stoid, you clearly think that watching this video involves no interpretation, that there is only one way anyone can possibly see it, and that anyone who interprets it differently than you is just mocking it. You said here that anyone looking at the manifesto honestly would clearly see it the way you see it:
But now you’ve pointed out other quotes of yours:
Why do have to say where the message is coming from, what it’s intention and spirit are, what the sentiment behind it is? Why do you have to mention your background? If no interpretation is necessary, if the message is clear as day, then surely things like spirit don’t matter?
That you would say the “same to anyone” only indicates that you are willing to be rude, regardless the context. Making the claim that a poster was looking for an apology for an event that you are imagining is making a personal crack and you will stop it.
[ /Moderating ]
Meyer, seriously, I have no idea what you’re after.
I think we have firmly established that our communication with each other is extremely unproductive and frustrating. We do not “grok” one another in the remotest way, and for my own part I am completely exhausted by the attempt.
I am perfectly happy at this point to say so long and thanks for all the fish.
Do you agree or disagree that this video under discussion is a male to female apology? Since this is in Great Debates can I not discuss the motives behind willing to accept such a cloying and meaningless apology? This thread isn’t in MPSIMS, you know…
What I am ‘after’ is getting you to recognize that your interpretation is not the only interpretation. You seem to believe that how you see this video is the only possible way to see it, and that you are seeing only what is there with no interpretation. I’m trying to point out that your own statements include words that point to the fact that you are viewing this through your own filter. A filter which you are seemingly unable to acknowledge.
I agree that we do not ‘grok’ each other. But if you want to accuse me of misrepresentation, dishonesty, exaggeration, obsessing, denigrating, making logical leaps, making things up out of whole cloth, and putting words in other peoples mouths, you’ve got to expect me to reply to those insinuations. If you didn’t want negative responses to your video maybe you shouldn’t have posted it here on a message board where we are all free to share our opinions. If you find it exhausting to deal with criticism and you are only able to respond to it by claiming the critic is making things up, then again, you shouldn’t share things you know are controversial on a public message board.