Hello, all, I’m a longtime reader but have just registered. This is my first post.
It seems that General Motors has ordered the current incarnation of the F-Body cars (the Camaro and Firebird) be ended after the 2002 (35th anniversary) model year. Apparantly this is due to flagging sales (The Ford Mustang, despite its many shortcomings, out sells the Camaro and Firebird combined more than 2 : 1.)
I for one am crushed, and feel quite betrayed. Both the F-Body cars kept the V8 '60s muscle car tradition alive and well in these days of economy cars and minivans (not to mention SUVs). They also offered impressive safety ratings and reliability. Now all that’s ending in one fell swoop…
GM says they’ll keep the Camaro name alive…I personally take this to mean they’re castrate the noble machine like they did the Impala, and turn it into another boring family car.
Does anyone else out there feel such strong outrage at this decision? I realize this topic doesn’t interest most folk, but feel free to give you two cents.
I hope you’re wrong, but I wouldn’t be suprised to see a 4-door, half-assed, sorta-sporty-in-a-non-threatening-family-friendly-way Camaro sedan in a few years. Part of the continuing wussification of America.
“The Ford Mustang, despite its many shortcomings…”
“They also offered impressive safety ratings and reliability.” …f-bodies that is
Now, see BooBoo, it’s easier for all of us to understand why you are so confused about the demise of the F-body. I mean, you are probably a “GM Guy”, so to speak. Sort of a nationalistic pride behind a company that prevents you from “getting it”.
Perception is everything, and GM failed to deliver good F-body cars for so many years that the reputation of Camaros and Firebirds was destroyed. The stinkin’ f-body farce that started in 1982 with the redesign saw bajillions of cars roll off the lines and thousands of engine/drivetrain combos and this and that…and in all that time, there are maybe three desirable f-bodies. The rest are junk…pure junk.
The newer f-bodies seem to deliver with the modified 5.7 and the improved tranny and overall drive train and reliabilty. I dream of the modern Trans Am - seriously.
The Anniversay Trans Am with the 3.8 Buick Turbo SFI Engine from the Grand National in 1989 (?)
The original GTA with the Corvette (more or less) 5.7
These cars above are good to great, but the rest of the crap, including every 305 that rolled out were embarrassing. A 190 hp muscle car? I don’t think so! Quite embarrassing.
Don’t drag the Mustang into it. The Mustang’s more conservative looks kept the women buying, because it looked kinda cool, kinda cute. it sat up a little higher. Mustang stuck with convertible through almost all years, and Mustangs still offered incredible power for the money with so many aftermarket/legal hop-ups that your freakin’ head would spin.
No, the Mustang found a way to get it’s ass to the drag strips AND sell nicely to women who were happy with a nice car with a 165-190hp v6 and consistently fair reliability.
The f-body cars looked too extreme to produce high production numbers, and anytime they were underpowered just made the extreme look even worse.
Yes, off the assembly line, you could beat a Mustang by a few tenths of a second when comparing top end model to top end model. That, sir, is not what sells many cars to many different types of people.
GM should know better. Cars are business, and GM got their asses kicked. Period.
I have always wanted to own a Firebird, but its complete impraticality has held me off. I know it might be blasphemy to wish for any compromises in a sports car, but can’t I have a little more trunk space? And why was it necessary to place the catalytic converter under the passenger floor board? It’s incredibly annoying not to be able to put your feet down on a flat surface.
For me it’s always been “Well, maybe in 5 years.” Well, I might try and move my schedule up now, but I’m not sure if I can.
I once owned a Camaro and have to say that this 1986 model was one of the poorest vehicles I ever owned. The only reason I had it was because someone owed my money and I took the car as payment. It ranks up there as one of my poorer ideas.
It had rattles and squeaks everywhere, repairs were frequent and really expensive, and cops would pull me over for the simple reason I was driving the damn thing.
The new F-bodies are damn ugly, there’s no mystery why I see new Mustangs everywhere and not very many Camaros and Firebirds.
The Mustang is a fine looking car and gives good bang for the buck.
I gotta run here as work beckons. I’ll be driving a Ford to get there thank you very much.
I liked my '82 camaro. My brother still drives it today. It was a good car for me, it’s a good car for him. I loved my '86 IROC, unfortunately it was totalled after 4 days.
I think it sucks they’re killing it, especially to build <ugh> more SUV’s. I wouldn’t be surprised to seem them turn it into a 2 seater “mini-vette” (of course without vette-killing potential ;( )
Sorry people, no matter what the performance, newer mustangs are officially girl cars.
It wasn’t so very long ago that Ford announced similar plans regarding the Mustang. From what I understand only the outcry of a small but very vocal minority kept the Mustang alive in its V8 rwd configuration (that may be an urban legend, though, I certainly don’t have a cite). The Mustang replacement stayed around and became the Probe.
And I know this isn’t the most critical thing, but as a die-hard Mustang fan I get really sick of every year seeing the new models and hearing that the Camaro/Firebird is quicker that the Mustang yet AGAIN! They’ve been making these cars for about 35 years now, and it seems like for 30 of those 35 the Camaro/Firebird is quicker/faster. Sure, there’s a ton of aftermarket stuff for either the 5.0 or 4.6 'stangs that can make them seriously quick, but I’d love to be able to buy a Mustang with the 5.8L engine without having to shell out the bucks for a Saleen.
When I mentoned the Mustang’s shortcomings, I was referring to its poor traction, small engine, and very questionable perfomance through higher speeds (As both a Camaro/Firebird and Mustang approach 100 mph, the 'Stang is 2.3 seconds behind the F-body).
And you’re correct in blaming GM for the death of an American legend. Their refusal to advertise or redesign the Camaro and Firebird led to the poor sales.
And as for the Camaro being a “190-horsepower sports car”, the 2001 model sports 325 hp, stock. erhps the 3rd generation ('82-'92) was a bit iffy, but the current model is argueably the best year yet produced…so why kill it now?
Let us not forget the days of 4-cylinder economy Mustangs, yet it survived…due to its being a girl’s car.
Still, no real point in debating, its clear which car won the sales race…sometimes the better man doesn’t win.
When I mentoned the Mustang’s shortcomings, I was referring to its poor traction, small engine, and very questionable perfomance through higher speeds (As both a Camaro/Firebird and Mustang approach 100 mph, the 'Stang is 2.3 seconds behind the F-body).
And you’re correct in blaming GM for the death of an American legend. Their refusal to advertise or redesign the Camaro and Firebird led to the poor sales.
And as for the Camaro (or FIrebird) being a “190-horsepower sports car”, the 2001 model sports 325 hp, stock. Perhaps the 3rd generation ('82-'92) was a bit iffy (except forthemighty IROC-Z), but the current model is arguably the best year yet produced…so why kill it now?
Let us not forget the days of 4-cylinder economy Mustangs, yet it survived…due to its being a girl’s car.
Still, no real point in debating, its clear which car won the sales race…sometimes the better man doesn’t win.
Ah, yes, the “Nova” hatchback. What were they thinking? I once lived with a guy who drove one of these. That guy was a total asshole; I referred to his car as the asshole-mobile.
The F-body cars, or at least their drivers, have a reputation that Mustang drivers don’t share. Think about it – not too many young people buy new Buicks or Oldsmobiles, despite their being decent vehicles, because of their reputation as “old man’s cars.” In recent years, the F-body has become associated with white trash and mullets. In my hometown, driving a Camaro labels you a “guido.” Reality may be different, but there’s no doubt the reputation has hurt sales of these fine automobiles.
I heard that statement aboyt GM keeping the Camaro name.
Don’t have a link, but the new car is supposedly imported from Holden (GM Australia). Firebird/Trans Am will die.
You have a great perspective, elmwood…I could not agree more.
I bought a Mustang GT a few years ago, after I previously owned a Trans Am. In the Trans Am, I was a guido. When I moved from Philly to New Jersey, Trans Ams were for mullet wearing trailer park trash.
The GT crowd was more diverse. It was more of a club for GT owners, and we didn’t give a rat’s ass about the chicks driving the 6 cyl Stangs. They were just ensuring the longevity of the Mustang line-up.
I loved when some f-body guido or mullet head would act like a car guy - I would ask him about his tranny, and it would always be a friggin automatic. How embarassing.
Mustang GT’s were manuals…you would have to spend some time trying to find an auotmatic in a GT. But you would have trouble finding a stick in an F-body.
Part of the reason Mustangs sell so well are the number of used ones that come out of the rental car market. I always had the impression that the Mustang (and Fords in general) always keep the mass market in mind during the design stage. This focus shows up not only in the number sold but also in the rather bland design. Camaro’s in a rental car fleet can be very expensive. People weren’t used to the long nose and kept bashing the front bumpers in.
Car choice is all a matter of personality, and frankly, the three hottest women I have known all drove Firebirds. No Mustangs to be seen. When my wife needed a new car, we bought a 99 Trans Am (six-speed, thank you very much) because it had the more aggressive styling and, to her, projected a lot more attitude than the rather wimpy looking Mustang. With T-tops, V-8, and rear wheel drive, it is probably one of the funnest cars on the road to ride in. One day she might even let me drive it.
More to the OP, with the demise of the F-bodies, what choices am I going to have when I come due for a new car? IIRC, the only other 8 cylinder rear-wheel drive cars in production and stickered for under $30k are the Mustang and the Crown Vic. The Corvettes and the new T-bird are both way outside of my price range.
One last digression, and this is probably just going to reinforce the white-trash remarks of some folks, but what the heck – you notice that in Smokey and the Bandit, when Burt Reynolds wants a “fast car,” (cash changes hands), “faster than that” to use as a blocker it ain’t no stinkin’ Mustang he rolls off of the back of that truck.
I can’t remember the year the movie was made, but I think that was about the time of the whole Mustang II debacle. Even as a devout Mustang fan there are a number of years in the 70’s I’d love to pretend never happened.
Now in the mid to late 80’s, no doubt he be driving a Mustang!