[Wise of Morton and Wise]That’s a bit strong, iddinnit?[/WoMaW] You can say to a child, “No, Necrozius. Put those down.” and the child will learn. Cats, in my limited experience, tend to avoid heavily populated areas like knick-knack shelves. My Westie has never knocked anything over like that, probably because he comes up to my knee (my waist on two-legs).
Aren’t Great Danes outdoor dogs anyway?
I agree: it’s an ignorant comparison. I’m no fan of declawing, but I think it’s way overboard to call it cruelty; I just think it should be done as a last-ditch effort, after other solutions have been considered and discarded.
Declawing a cat may make it adoptable into a home that it otherwise wouldn’t be adoptable into, but often there’s another solution equally effective: educate the homeowners about alternatives to declawing. (Again, that’s “often,” not “always,” effective).
Altering a dog or cat means that you’re not contributing to the animal ovepopulation problem. In some areas, especially certain areas in New England, the problem isn’t so severe; but in other areas, especially the South, the overpopulation of dogs and cats is very severe. Assuming that there is a finite number of “slots” for dogs and cats in homes, then every puppy or kitten that you let your animals have results in a dog or cat being euthanized. Even if you find a home for your pet’s kids, those are homes that would otherwise be filled by other animals. (This is not strictly true, but it is true for the most part).
So, declawing very occasionally saves a single life. Altering very often saves multiple lives.
Daniel
It’s convenient, dre2xl that your personal anecdote perfectly fits davenportavenger’s classic declawing moral conundrum:
But I’m afraid that FIP is not normally transmitable between cats and there’s suggestion that mutation from a human form of the disease is the most common vector.
Unravelling the Secrets of Feline Infectious Peritonitis(pdf)
So, I’m afraid you butchered your cat and sent it to die with strangers for no reason. 
Sorry to be harsh but the least you could have done is look up your cat’s illness.
On the dog hijacks, my Siberian Husky is the dog for me. That’s him in a snowfall last year. I like all types and am in fact on my way to a big off-leash area for the morning.
Your garden variety pet owner isn’t open to very much education. Animals are expected to fit into their lives, not the other way around. 99% of the time, if kittie ruins the drapes, kittie goes back to the pound.
So much of the “declawing is cruel” arguements hinge on what the cat feels and wants. Declawing a cat is like taking off its fingernail. I bet if a cat could talk they’d tell you that they’d rather keep their testicles, thank you very much.
A friend of mine works for an animal shelter. If she gets in kittens before 14 days of age she declaws them. At that point of their lives, taking them off is like removing a declaw from a newborn puppy (i.e. it’s a piece of cake that doesn’t appear to bother the kitten for more than 3 minutes). Why does she do this? Becuase she can place every single kitten that way.
That’s one of those 97% of statistics that gets pulled out of someone’s ass, isn’t it? Declawing is done by a vet; the vet is in a perfect position to educate.
How much would you bet? We just need to invent a cat-translator, and then this sentence is remotely relevant. Until then, what you bet on a sheer hypothetical is irrelevant.
Oh, can she? And where is this shelter, and is it an open-access or limited-access shelter?
Daniel
Better strike guests from the list too. Hmmm. I knock things down. I better move out 
I like Danes too, though I never had one. World’s largest lap dog.
As for declawing or not declawing, I just have to tell everyone Fuck You! There. I’ve filled my quota for this year
Dogs and cats become a lot more docile, a little more lazy/less rambunctious, and generally get along with people and animals better. Compare a fixed animal of a certain breed to a non-fixed one and it’s clear there’s a difference. True, most of the personality changes from fixing are positive ones, but they’re still changes, brought on by the fact that the animal’s hormonal makeup is severely altered. It happens to people too; look at what happens to women after hysterectomies who don’t take HRT and men who’ve been castrated.
Yep, had an unfixed female cat for four months last year that we had to keep inside until we could afford to fix her and had the time to drive her out to get it done. (Well, we kept her inside anyway even after she was fixed, but it wasn’t as imperative.) She screamed and went nuts, but as long as we kept the doors and windows shut, and were ready to kick (not hard) her inside when we came inside, it wasn’t that hard to keep her in. Females in heat don’t magically acquire the ability to unlock windows and doors.
Hmm . . . you can manage to keep from altering her by driving her nuts and kicking her. Now there’s a strong argument against altering a cat! 
I know you’re not saying that this is a superior alternative, but I think it raises a good point: if you don’t alter an animal but you deny their sex drive, you’re creating a much more traumatic experience for the animal than if you just went ahead with the surgery. And if you allow them to experience their sex drive and you live in an area with many homeless animals, then you’re increasing the euthanasia rate, which is also more traumatic for some animal than the surgery would have been.
I don’t deny that altering causes personality changes on average, and I get annoyed at animal welfare folks who make such denials: the cause isn’t helped by denying the obvious. I just think that those changes are the least objectionable of all possibilities, and many of the changes, as you say, are positive.
Daniel
No, not at all, imo. They’re very much a breed that needs and wants to be close to it’s family. They would be very unhappy outdoors as a solitary dog. They also have thin skin and short fur. In summer they can get sunburn/insect bites, and they have no big fluffy fur coat to keep them warm in winter. They’re a breed that, especially as adults, will even do well in an apartment, as long as they get two good walks a day.
They’re big couch potatoes for the most part, a few good brisk walks and maybe a good romp around the yard a day satisfies their need for exercise just fine in most cases.
Don’t they sell cat claw covers? 
The thread devolved into 72- and 104-point cunts from 12- and 14-point fucks, then continued into the second page. Since I had (and still don’t) have anything more to say not covered in the OP, I figured 12-point fuck it.
Good enough. Perhaps you should ask a Mod to put this thread out of our misery and banish it to the pile of similar threads?
What crime would it be–a feliney?
Daniel
Let’s add it to the lawbooks as the Cat Clause. (groan)
Just don’t add an equine rider.
Especially after we’ve gone and made a mockery of it.
Let us have some fun. If there is a way to read the ancient writings in previous cat declawing threads, you’ll find I came out against declawing. I have three cats, all of them have claws. All are indoor cats (except when they succeed in sneaking out).
Don’t you know that 87% of all statistics are made up. Yes, vets are in a perfect position to educate, and most try to educate their clients. They’re also in a pretty good position to see their % success rate. It’s nothing close to 97%.
Lots of people give their infants big doses of benedryl in order to get them to sleep through the night, let their dogs and kids travel without restraints in the back of pick up trucks, and do every other stupid lazy thing in the book. Yet they’re going to vigilant and consistant enough to prevent their cat from clawing the furniture and drapes? What color is the sky in your world?
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How much would you bet? We just need to invent a cat-translator, and then this sentence is remotely relevant. Until then, what you bet on a sheer hypothetical is irrelevant.
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Suposed to be humorous. Sorry. Q: How many humane society workers does it take to change a light bulb? A: That’s not funny!
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Oh, can she? And where is this shelter, and is it an open-access or limited-access shelter?
Daniel
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The shelter was/is in Chester Co. Pennsylvania. A private individual who fostered cats that would otherwise be put down because the shelter was full.
Like ear crops, elective C-sections, tail docks etc. etc. - many people want declawed cats despite the fact it subjects the critter to unnecessary surgery and has to be painful for some period of time no matter how carefully performed. The trade off from the cat’s perspective is that it keeps it alive and in an indoor situation .
Given how regularly I get scratched just going over to my business partner’s house, I would never get a cat without some kind of declawing or softpaws or whatever. I’ll be darned if I’m going to walk around with giant scratch marks from those little bastards.
