**Askia ** I think what **Mississippienne ** refers to is the term being used by white folks - she interprets it as something being used to describe black folks, not something they themselves use. She says that it was used mockingly, that’s why she’s hesitant to use it, not because she has issues with the “ideology” of it. At least, that’s how it looks to me. 
Just after I got a computer, I made the discovery that Americans with vague Irish connections were much more touchy about Irish jokes than anyone is over here - most Irish comedians, North and South, make a living telling ‘Irish’ jokes.
I joined a couple of sci-fi groups, star-trek and Babylon 5 ones, and made the mistake of sending a Xmas card to one of the groups, putting in the subject line ‘A Xmas card from N. Ireland’. The card was a N.I. cartoon from the BBC NI website - an Irish santa having a flying accident with his sleigh, if I remember rightly.
I woke up on Xmas morning to find I’d been banned from the group - accused of racism against people from NI. I wrote to both the mods., explaining that I actually lived here. For some reason this made things worse - I was accused of being ashamed of my country and posting a racist card which implied that Irish people [it was Santa, for goodness sake] were too thick to fly a sleigh without crashing into a mountain. The amount of vitriol in those e-mails was OTT, so I left every other sci-fi group I was in - I was so disgusted.
My other experience of being accused of racism was on a political group [NOT this one] where I posted against the invasion of Iraq before it happened. I was called fascist, Nazi, anti-american, racist - you name it. The final straw was when I was nicknamed ‘The Irish Peace Nazi’. When that happened I left the group and deleted everything I’d ever posted there. Why is it that I can’t be opposed to the actions of the american government without being called anti-american?? To me, anyway, they are not the same thing at all.
In my experience it’s too easy sometimes to tag people from another part of the world, with a different viewpoint, as racists … without even trying to take what they’re saying in context.
NinetyWt. It “galls” her. The people she grew up with used “African-American” to mock reparations. She moved North but she’d rather just stick to black. I get it.
I just doubt that’s whole story.
Fun Sarah Silverman fact- she also said that as a Jewish woman, she was disturbed by the attention given by the TV network to her Asian critics because it showed how her fellow Jews were losing control over the media. 
She said it funnier tho.
Wow. Perhaps I was overly vague in my original post. Yes, I am a white Southerner. I grew up hearing my relatives talking about blacks in very cruel ways. They never said “African-American” in a respectful sense. Even as an adult, when I say “African-American” I hear their mocking echoing in my ears. In contrast, I heard “black” as a neutral term, a counterpart to “white”, and that’s ingrained in my mind as the appropriate word.
I did move up North for a year, but have since returned to the South. I’ll be the first to tell you I’m not perfect, but I would never purposefully discriminate against people based on race or insult anyone with racial epitephs. If I insulted you Askia, it was not intended.
That is SOOO hurtful to the French!
I get an idea, too, askia that Mississippienne is a good bit younger than I am (I’ll be 45 next month W00t!). The kids of my teenagers’ generation honestly do not “get” what we older ones went thru. I appreciate and respect your honest question, but I don’t think Mississippienne is guilty of that. Although I DO know plenty of people who are.
The black/white dichotomy had a lot to do with the change to black in the late 1960s: one complaint was that whites were identified in the papers as simply “white” while blacks were identified by the (at that time polite) “Negro” and there was a feeling that using the “scientific” term made blacks appear to be a group that was only to be studied, not treated as equal citizens.
I knew quite a few people, (many of them from that group) who would have liked to have seen “colored” remain the most common word. However, there was way too much baggage associated with “colored” because all the Jim Crow signs separating rest rooms, drinking fountains, and building entrances and prohibiting certain actions used the word “colored.”
.
Interesting that you don’t make a point of saying the same thing to Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, etc. (Otherwise, why do you only raise the issue, here, in regards to blacks?)
I couldn’t work up a bit of sympathy for that guy. He knew very well what “niggardly” sounded like to black listeners, and his “Look it up in the dictionary” defense ranks up there with “But it also means ‘female dog’!”
Oh, stop. Look, I overreacted, first to “galls me” (which I associate with white folks’ consternation with uppitty Negroes. That’s my hang up.) and then I read your post “hearing” your words in the most bubbleheaded backwood Tupelo accent I could recall. That’s me, not you. I’m very sorry.
Boy I’m gonna grow up to be one hell of a churlish old fuck. I need to stay away from these race threads for awhile.
NinetyWt. Thanks for playing peacemaker, making me re-read my posts.
tomndebb. Oh, THANK YOU for mentioning Jim Crow Laws and the ‘Colored’ signs. I knew I forgot something.
Ah! I too had (mercifully) forgotten the “colored only” signs. Yeah, that would’ve put an onus on that word!
As for your other point, though, I have never heard anyone refer to themselves as Irish-American, Polish-American, Italian-American, etc., unless they are specifically asked about their ancestry. I’ve certainly never called myself a Russian/Transylvanian-American or an Eastern-European American, except jokingly in threads like this.
well, my classes from Pre-School up until 2nd grade consisted of an all white class (I grew up in Connecticut…probably the whitest state in the nation), except for one student who was from Brazil and would probably fall closest to Hispanic on the race chart, but his eyes were enough to make the teacher think he was “chinese”. Not old or educated enough to know that he and his culture were being insulted (and I guess he never told his parents), he let himself be the butt of plenty of jokes. He also shared the first name as me, so I became known as the white one, and him the chinese one. I realized that there were many more than three races, but I also knew plenty of things that my teacher didn’t know, and trying to correct her always managed to get ME into trouble (damn, I could write an entire thread on things I wish I knew I had the power to do when I was in elementary school just by complaining to the right people), so I wasn’t about to miss recess or get my ear pinched and pulled (yes, she did that too. I’m guessing she probably got her paddle taken away a couple years before I got there) just to update her on the advances in race classification.
Dude, being opposed to the actions of the american government is the
definition of being American!
Alternatively, how often have you heard a person casually refer to themselves as “African-American” when the subject was not concerned with ancestry? Everyone I know whose ancestors were imported from Africa use the word “black.” (I know that there are a few people who actually use “African-American,” but their presence tends to be way overplayed by folks who decide to take offense at it.) On those occasions where the subject of ethnicity comes up, I don’t have a real problem with a person using “African-American.” We have lots of Italian-American and Polish-American neighborhood restaurants in Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago. My boss’s office is less than a mile from the British-American Club and Cleveland has two separate Irish-American clubs (east side and west side; not pretty).
This, of course, was Jackson’s problem with presenting that term: he lives in Chicago and hyphenated-Americans are actually pretty comon in Rust-Belt cities. I don’t fault Jackson, so much, for just not paying attention to how his language would sound outside the Rust-Belt, but the massive media swing to mindlessly follow his usage when the overwhelming majority of people who would be so described still prefer “black” was rather stupid.