Gotta second that one. 
that was a ballsy move, Red. good work town.
And now I owe a very sincere, heartfelt, and humble apology to everyone here for being an enormous idiot. If anyone cares to know what I think about anything, just ask. I think I’ll shut up instead.
I think I’ll go crawl under a rock now…
Yeah, I deserve this. 
As someone once said, “Apology accepted, but that doesn’t make your moves any less of a desperate attempt to save the game for your team.”
But I should amend those last words to “our team.”
In other words, you were doing the same thing I was – trying to help town. We just had different ideas about how to go about that.
(Or do you still maintain that I must be scum? Hopefully not, but God knows what permutations of different possibilities exist now that Red has flipped scum.)
Y’know, it’s my birthday today. Red Skeezix flipping scum was an amazing early birthday present. I – well, more importantly, we townies – really needed that.
So that’s twice lately I’ve been right, just like the proverbial stopped clock. If you still think I’m scum, you’ll say this was PIS. But the truth is, it’s just a brief moment of lucidity in an otherwise dismal playing record, and darn tootin’ I’m gonna revel in it while I can.
I believed ShadowFacts starting with the day many others lynched him. I wavered slightly when he placed all four votes on Red, but that’s my instinctive antipathy toward the multi-voting mechanic coming to the fore. (Something that has remained utterly consistent Day after Day. Yes, I’m muleish too.) But after only a moment’s thought – less time than it takes to lose editing privileges over a post here on the SDMB – I realized that was silly: that if I believed ShadowFacts, as I did, it was folly to vote based on my dislike of an in-game mechanic that everyone else has accepted. So I stuck to my original guns and voted for the scummy Red Skeezix. That was back on Day 5.
You thought I was invoking ShadowFacts to “smear” you. But I wasn’t, I was invoking Shadow because it seems to me that, like you, he’s now a confirmed townie. So looking back on his words, and the words of all our town’s glorious dead, seems to me to be a very important thing – just as important as looking back on the living’s posts. Don’t you think? I felt the same way about Suburban, since I believed him confirmed townie (and subsequently have been proven correct on that too).
Anyway, that’s been sticking in my craw all day and again, I know you asked me not to address you, but since I nearly got lynched I feel the need to defend myself and explain my actions clearly.
I’m not saying I’m a good player just 'cause by a fluke I got three guesses right – hell no, sweet zombie Jesus, does anyone get farther from being a good player than I? But just as you didn’t deserve the frustrated comments I was making toward you, I don’t think I deserved what’s been flung at me for the past Day.
The Townies who voted against me toDay may still think I’m scummy because of my awful play throughout the game (except toDay, IMHO), but as you’ll probably find out Tomorrow when you finally do lynch me, you’ll learn that I’m really not scum. I’m just dumb. (When it comes to Mafia, that is.) And dumb ain’t scum. 
Anyway, that’s all. The important thing? Red’s dead, baby. And happy birthday to me. 
BTW did anyone find my chart useful for tracking people’s final votes over time? Because I’m going to keep it updated. Here it is with Today’s votes added in:
DAY ONE DAY TWO DAY THREE DAY FOUR DAY FIVE DAY SIX
Askthepizzaguy Hirka/Koldanar Septimus x2 ShadowFacts x2 Septimus x2 Inner Stickler x2 choie x2
Choie KellyCriterion, Silver Jan Silver Jan, Normal Phase Normal Phase Lightfoot Red Skeezix Red Skeezix, Hirka
Gnarlycharlie Askthepizzaguy Normal Phase, USCDiver Mental Guy, Septimus ShadowFacts ShadowFacts choie x2
Inner Stickler did not vote Silver Jan Septimus Septimus x2 ShadowFacts x2 choie x2
KellyCriterion Silver Jan lynched (Day 1) - - - -
Hirka/Koldanar Askthepizzaguy ShadowFacts x2 ShadowFacts x2 Red Skeezix x2 ShadowFacts x2 Red Skeezix x2
LightFoot KellyCriterion Hirka/Koldanar, USCDiver TexCat Septimus, USCDiver ShadowFacts murdered (Night 5?)
Mental Guy Hirka/Koldanar Hirka/Koldanar, Gnarlycharlie Septimus, Gnarlycharlie Septimus ShadowFacts Red Skeezix x2
NormalPhase KellyCriterion, Septimus Septimus x2 ShadowFacts, TexCat Septimus, Mental Guy ShadowFacts x2 Red Skeezix x2
pedescribe Silver Jan Askthepizzaguy x2 did not vote did not vote did not vote did not vote
Red Skeezix Silver Jan Silver Jan Septimus, ShadowFacts Septimus x2 ShadowFacts Red Skeezix x2
Weedy/Romanic Hirka/Koldanar Silver Jan TexCat Septimus x2 ShadowFacts Red Skeezix x2
Scathach KellyCriterion, Hirka/Koldanar murdered (Night 2) - - - -
Septimus Askthepizzaguy Silver Jan x2 TexCat x2 Red Skeezix lynched (day 4) -
ShadowFacts Silver Jan Normal Phase, pedescribe TexCat x2 Red Skeezix x2 Red Skeezix x2 lynched (day 5)
Silver Jan Hirka/Koldanar, pedescribe Special Ed x2 lynched (Day 2) - - -
Special Ed KellyCriterion x2 Septimus x2 murdered (Night 3) - - -
Stanislaus KellyCriterion Mental Guy Septimus, Texcat Septimus x2 Red Skeezix x2 Red Skeezix x2
Suburban Plankton KellyCriterion, Silver Jan Silver Jan, TexCat TexCat x2 Septimus Red Skeezix x2 murdered (Night 6)
TexCat KellyCriterion Special Ed ShadowFacts x2 lynched (Day 3) - -
USCDiver/Tom Scud KellyCriterion, Silver Jan Askthepizzaguy Septimus Red Skeezix x2 Red Skeezix x2
I think this is correct. I do see that it doesn’t show the whole picture, since the unvoting is important too. That’s why MentalGuy’'s chart is probably more useful to everyone. But I like seeing the progression of everyone’s final vote too.
If you really want me to answer, I will.
But honestly, since you guys are doing a better job reading the scums than I am, what the ____ does it matter what I have to say?
I’ll respond since maybe it will at least explain what was going on in my brain. I’ll put it in spoilers so that people won’t be subjected to more of my long-winded idiocy.
[spoiler]I agree on Hirka, and the case against him still looks fairly solid IMO. Especially the early game reactions to Koldanar’s imminent lynch, and the pushes onto Silver Jan and KellyCriterion, and how septimus himself reacted to it, and how Koldanar also voted for me. One of the things I noted was how choie was reacting in the early game to what I was doing, and also this round, when I voted Hirka and Diver. It wasn’t until these repeated reactions and her refusal to say which of Hirka or Diver she’d prefer (plus my mistaken assumption Red was innocent) that I felt she was trying to protect Hirka or Diver, and I wasn’t sure which one. But I didn’t really care which one; I felt she was protecting one of the two, at least, and having to guess which one didn’t appeal to me as much as finally peeking under choie’s skirt and finding a Lord of Slaughter. Then it would be as simple as picking off Hirka and then Diver, or Diver and then Hirka.
Near the end of this round, after Red’s claim which jarred the hell out of me and made me doubt everything again, I re-examined my own case and found that the only things that seemed solid to me were the Beguiler role description and the fact that everyone wanted him dead.
Puzzled the hell out of me how he could be guilty.
Then I flipped one thing, and things started to make sense; if Red was being bussed so septimus could live, and that’s what explained the entire tactic as a good strategy, because the inverse was too silly to be a good move, IMO.
That made sense, but then I was still being thrown by the fact that he admitted his kill instead of staying quiet, in a moment where if he had just shut up choie might have been dead instead. Plus, the Godfather description.
Also I had staked too much of my own self-worth on his being innocent, I don’t think I could have looked at him with truly unbiased eyes.
I was worried enough that I recommended everyone just follow their own instincts, and go against my wishes if they felt it was best. But that was as good as I was going to get in my “Red is innocent” colorblind universe that I was inhabiting.
I did also mention that Hirka looked scummier than choie during the whole exchange. And others tend to agree, he just looks scummy as hell.
I’m done placing wagers on guilt though. It’s clear to me that I got a bit cocky after successfully reading septimus in the early game, and with my experience I felt I could read total strangers I’ve never played with before. Certainty always gets you into trouble…
In fact, one of the things I was arguing that whole round was how folks’ certainty about Red Skeezix would limit the discussion and weaken the town’s ability to judge alternative scenarios. While I was arguing that, I fell into that same trap. Like a fool.
Askthepizzaguy: “DON’T DO WHAT I’M DOING! DON’T DO WHAT I’M DOING! DON’T DO WHAT I’M DOING!” gets caught in certainty trap
Neglected to follow my own advice. Well I did examine Red-as-guilty a little bit but I wasn’t taking it very seriously at all. I had a golden opportunity to rectify my mistakes and I let it slip through my fingers.
As with anything I do, I was still trying to gauge reactions to the choie V Skeezix lynch. I did feel, in the back of my mind, if Red was guilty, giving counter-wagons to Red would be illuminating.
This is one thing that is still true, in spite of my dumbassery: If everyone just wagons one guy, guilty or not, you learn nothing except if that guy was innocent or not.
I just couldn’t wrap my brain around that idea he was guilty until I saw the Red being bussed to spare septimus scenario, and then it was too late to even save face, and I couldn’t bring myself to retract my arguments in full. Stuck on one idea.
I mentioned that Hirka’s voting record looked more incriminating than choie’s, but since I was already locked in and I was worried that shifting the tally too much would paralyze the town just as it did on the septimus-Shadow-TexCat three-way tie, I felt I needed to limit my advocacy to just choie or just Red Skeezix in order to ensure town still had control over the situation.
What if I am wrong on Hirka? I just felt that it was going to be choie or Red Skeezix. A 50/50 is better than none. But yeah, even at the end, Hirka started looking worse and worse to me.
The way he didn’t respond to my case against him, how he disappeared for most of the round, he logged in but didn’t say anything halfway through it, and then (weakly) shifted his vote to choie as if that is what I expected him to do. Again, it’s just following what the townie leader says.
His voting record was far worse, I noted that choie kept going after Normal Phase over and over. I noted that this was something townies tend to do because scumbags tend to need their vote for other things, in a more opportunistic sense. And, her votes for Normal Phase only ended up making her look bad (in my eyes), which is something that scumbags tend to avoid. They don’t like to vote for people when those sorts of votes would get attention onto them.
I was just not feeling it from choie after the reaction to the Hirka and Diver votes. I couldn’t even begin to see her as innocent until Hirka’s vote switch to her which looked opportunistic as all hell. And I’m probably biased against choie by now, given how we’ve had nothing but friction all game long. But I can’t give excuses for my own bad judgment on Red Skeezix or anyone… it’s my judgment and it was wrong.
Red Skeezix flipping scum makes things easier for the town, by a long shot, but there are still difficult challenges, especially for me. I haven’t been examining closely the Red-as-guilty theory and it puts some people in a better light and some people in a darker light, and I haven’t begun to analyze it properly. And, I’ve honestly shot my wad here, I’m spent. Even if I’m right on Hirka, or Diver, or anyone, right now I’ve been wrong too many times this game to feel confident enough to launch a big case on anyone.
You folks have demonstrated better judgment on Skeezix and on several others. I think I would actually be a better help if I just shut up and accepted the death sentence that I know is coming within the next 1-2 rounds.
I’ve asked nicely for the Lords to kill me. I think now I know why they haven’t done it. I’ve been too much of a useful pawn.
[/spoiler]
OH I did want to ask you something, pizza. I don’t know if you read back over the day’s posts (I mean the literal day, not the game Day), but early yesterday morning, when it looked to me very likely that the bandwagon was rolling in my direction, I unvoted Red Skeezix and offered to give you and Normal the decision over my votes – similarly to what you were asking (nay, demanding) of ShadowFacts. If you had told me to vote for myself, I would have.
At the time, it could have made the difference. But as things turned out, it didn’t, because I didn’t get any response and as the day wore on more and more people turned up to vote for Red.
In the end, I voted my conscience: I thought Red Skeezix was scum and was now leaning toward Hirka as well, so I split my votes with them.
But as I said early in the morning, I was very willing to vote myself if that’s what you wanted. I thought it was a mistake for ShadowFacts not to give up his votes as requested, and so I figured I’d offer to follow the will of the only live confirmed townie (and the person he seems to trust most).
My question to you is: ignoring how Red flipped, what should I have done? Or more to the point, what do you think you’d have told me to do? Would you have told me to vote for myself? Would my willingness to do as you wished have made any difference to you?
(OTOH look at Red Skeezix’s gambit. I guess if one scum was willing to vote for himself, I could have been doing the same thing.)
I was really trying to help… really trying to put my experience to good use. I was giving reasons for everything I was doing, just in case my logic was so flawed that people could see it.
Thank goodness they did.
Another reason why giving reasons for what we do is so important. It lets people examine your thought process critically, and disagree with it rationally.
Yes.
As I mentioned at the beginning of the game, I have a very different style to you guys and it didn’t mean that one was better or worse. In fact, they can work together. My early hunches got septimus on the radar, but after that, everyone else’s hunches led to Red Skeezix and I was still stuck on a different mindset.
It is good that we have both. But right now I’m feeling I’ve done more harm than good. Surely we would have hit someone blindly by now, making up for all the good I’ve contributed, and my arguments in Skeezix’ favor have done nothing but doom one townie after another, so far at least.
You could still be scum.
However, choie… I don’t care if you are at this point. You have outplayed me in any sense. Town or mafia.
I really want you to be mafia just so I’ll feel better, and all my praise of your play will have not been empty and misguided, thinking you were scum. Like I said if you’re scum you’re the best I’ve ever seen.
Not interested in pushing that idea right now. I’d rather shut up and listen more closely to what you have to say, assuming it doesn’t talk about what a self-absorbed jerkass I’ve been. Because no matter how critical you guys can easily be of me right now, no one could possibly kick me harder over it than I.
As well you should. And a sincere happy birthday to you.
I have seen the tactic of using dead townies as an excuse to vote for people.
Ask Normal Phase. I remember one game in particular, “The Trouble In Waiting”.
She and her partner both used the suspicions of the dead to incriminate me. The dead were wrong. I felt their moves were scummy since it was shifting responsibility.
That’s not the only example, I can think of countless more if I tried. I’ve seen it so many times from scumbags.
It’s just that townies do it too, and I think I was wrong in this instance.
Only because when you had been addressing me, it had been to dress me down on a personal level, and I prefer to keep the discussion on an in-game level.
I’m aware how I look, it’s just that I believe in principles of aggressive play, questioning, deception even as townie, and explaining your ideas in full. It makes me look like a total ass when I’m wrong. When I’m right, it helps explain what was going through my head so people can copy my good ideas. They automatically discard the bad ones, so I’m not worried about that.
No, you’re a good player, and that would be true right or wrong about the lynch today.
What I consider a good player is someone who shows up and votes and tries to defend their ideas. It doesn’t matter if they’re right or wrong. That beats lurkers or folks who vote without reason 100 games to 1.
I also look at the long term picture. Even if you were wrong on everything (which you were not) you were trying. And players who try will succeed far more often than players who do not. Not only does your long term future as a mafia player look bright, but your performance this game is at least better than mine at this point.
Some of my criticism of your play stands; it could use a more focused approach to suspects rather than focusing on what you find wrong with my play. I fully expect to be browbeat after the game for my performance and told 6 ways from Sunday how to better assimilate and improve. And I’ll deserve it. But, in the middle of the game is not always the best time, as it does indeed distract from the scum-finding. And you were obviously doing so well there… that advice was actually good.
Now, now. One of the reasons you’re either so frustrating an opponent or so successful a teammate is because you are fiercely intelligent. I left you alone in the early game because you demonstrated such a fighting spirit and wits to match that if you were an ally I had to sit back and watch you work rather than follow up on my suspicions immediately.
Even if you are an enemy, I had to watch you work. I am still learning, even after 100+ games. There is no end to that learning process, especially with new people.
Never.
I accept my fallibility even when I feel quite certain. You hold the choie card, you know for sure what team you’re on, and regardless of what team you’re on, you must fight for your team.
Proven innocent Pizza cannot 100% determine your guilt or innocence just because he’s experienced and proven innocent.
ALWAYS back yourself against the advice of even proven innocent townies. Never give up, never back down.
I had a huge hand in losing a big game recently called Mafia X.
I had been suspecting “Fat Tony” for a while and myself and Renata and TheLastDays had all privately agreed he was scum. We all voted for him.
The dead were screaming for my head, they were sure I was guilty. I was finally so fed up I voted myself, and that tied it up.
Fat Tony broke the tie and lynched me. He went on to win the game… as mafia scum.
ALWAYS challenge the opinions of even the dead proven innocents if they think you’re guilty when you’re not. Don’t repeat my mistakes.
I make the mistakes so others don’t have to… (lol) Trust me I have just as many useful “failure” stories to add to a discussion as I do have success stories. And the failure stories are just as teachable.
But again, everyone has something to teach; even if it’s your first game, choie, I’m still watching you because no matter who you are, you have something to teach me. If I am any good at this game (and this game isn’t a good example of that, but) it’s because I’ve watched better players and tried to follow them.
choie, do you think there’s any merit to Hirka T’Bawa as a suspect?
Is there anything you agree with on that point? What do you disagree with? And who are your top suspects at the moment?
Show me the awesome. Who else is guilty, my friend?
It’s getting crazy late here in NYC so I need to go to sleep, especially now that I’m a year older and can’t be staying up all hours like a kid. (BTW, where are you located, pizza? I belatedly noticed today – when I was waiting for your decision on my votes – that you mostly post during what’s overnight for me. Are you in a hugely different timezone, e.g. Hong Kong or something similar, or are you just on a night shift type schedule?)
But thanks for your responses and being gracious enough to be honest and forthright with me. You’re very right that I was letting my frustrations out in an unhelpful and unconstructive way, and I shouldn’t have made things personal. Sometimes I get too snarky but I really would hate to think I hurt someone’s feelings, especially over a game.
But…but… but then why did people look askance at ShadowFacts for not ceding his votes? See this is why I can’t wrap my head around this game… I’ve been trying to follow precedents and when I do, everyone reacts 180 degrees different from how they did before! Argh! I thought that showing goodwill would be worth it, not to mention that if you genuinely thought you could get more information out of my death than Red Skeezix’s, it would definitely be worth taking the virtual bullet. Or rather, the noose.
Well… let’s be fair. The guy’s name was “Fat Tony”! A parent doesn’t name a kid that without expecting him to be cosa nostra.
I certainly hope to learn that lesson. I think it’ll be quite a while before I venture into another Mafia game, but I do intend to keep reading 'em and learning. It’s clear that reading is verrrrry different from being in a game, but I feel safer sitting on the sidelines until I really can understand the power roles dynamic. That’s really the part that is screwing me up. (That, combined with the D&D aspects of this particular game, I think.)
In the meantime, for the rest of this game I’ll try hard to be a more active and responsible player. It’s my fear of embarrassing myself that keeps me from participating more, but by now I realize I can’t possibly embarrass myself any more than I already have in this game. God only knows how much I’m getting skewered in the spoiler boards (now that I know there is one!). Heh.
Anyway, have a good night and don’t beat yourself up too much. Well, maybe just a little, if you want to give me a little birthday present. But no, seriously, you’re trying to make sure we survive, and that’s the important thing.
I’m in Florida, so same time zone as you. I’m just a pizza guy, so I work late and have fun late, and sleep days.
I’m a tough cookie myself, but underneath my aggressive mafia persona, and underneath my outgoing internets persona, there’s actually a very, very quiet, very introverted, very shy and insecure** dude who types** as Askthepizzaguy.
I’m very different IRL from Askthepizzaguy. He’s just a big mean monster disguise that I keep on as my “game face”. I was quite bruised by some of your comments, yes… but maybe I deserved them… SOME of them.
Giving up his voting power makes him less dangerous as scum and doesn’t harm him as town. Had he not been so stubborn on that point, I might have even listened to him…
But I can’t give excuses. This is ShadowFacts’ moment, his time to shine. A memorial and statue must be erected in the center of town for our TRUE hero.
We all had “mafia” names in that game. I was “Mafia Anne”, a rather brutish looking “femme” fatale who apparently doesn’t like men very much, but found “Mafia Sonny” quite ladylike and charming on a whole different level…
You honestly should keep playing, especially if there’s a vanilla-ish game coming your way. You obviously have what it takes to work without the safety net of detectives and power roles. Not only is it less confusing when they’re gone, but you’ll get to rely on the very best detective, which is yourself.
Power roles make people too timid to lynch them… right Pizzaguy? :mad:
Trust me, I’m the one getting pasted on the spoiler boards. ShadowFacts is probably laughing his butt off as well he should.
Methinks I have “wants to be a hero” complex, not “thinks he’s God” complex.
Often mistaken for the same thing.
I think Hirka should go next, but I think hearing everyone out would be much sounder a strategy than barreling forward on anyone in particular. Have a lovely birthday celebration.
Crapples, we’re simulposting and I just said I needed to go to bed, darn you!
But answer I must.
Not only do I think there’s merit, but I actually voted Hirka T’Bawa today along with Red. (Did you not see that? Check out my handy dandy chart! :D) In addition to your own arguments against him/her (although some of them were linked with an assumption of me being a scummate), I started leaning towards Hirka last night when I was compiling that chart and looking over the patterns of votes. It started actually with Koldanar’s posts/votes and continued throughout the overall game. Then today the sudden decision to vote for me, then the utterly bewildering choice to vote Red Skeezix (once there was no turning back for Red) when, according to Hirka, s/he didn’t think Red was guilty, but was becoming a distraction.
Now, I admit that voting for someone just because they’re a pain in the ass is something I might have wanted to do. During our worst arguments I sorta wished “holy cow I wish he were scum so we could lynch him!” (Sorry…) But while this is something I might want to do in my heart of hearts, as a townie I cannot possibly advocate voting for some innocent party, especially when there’s a scummier person nearby. (And Hirka did think I was scummy. Or at least, s/he voted me, so I assume that was his/her thinking. If Hirka is scum s/he knows damn well I’m not scum.) Not to mention that (again, looking at my chart) Hirka proved to have been on ShadowFacts’s back for nearly the whole game.
Anyway, I wouldn’t say I’m sold 100%, but I’m already leaning that way enough to have voted for Hirka yesterDay.
But you know who I think is scummier than Hirka, at least looking at the voting history? gnarlycharlie. His votes:
Day 1: Askthepizzaguy
Day 2: Normal Phase, USCDiver
Day 3: Mental Guy, Septimus
Day 4: ShadowFacts
Day 5: ShadowFacts
Day 6: choie x2
Now, admittedly I don’t know about USCDiver or Mental Guy, but their records are more convincingly Town to me, and so is Normal’s (and that’s even despite my own earlier silly bias against her). But gnarly’s record seems like a pretty scummy record to me. Plus, I’m the only person he double-votes on the entire game? He was so desperate to save Red that he double-votes me?! C’mon.
So anyway, those are my thoughts, FWIW. What do you think? Is this helpful at all?
And now I really really must get to bed. Till tomorrow!
I did mention during this whole mess, while I was making a right ass of myself, that if Red was scum, the discussion might have prompted his mates into flinching. I mentioned gnarlycharlie’s name as pretty much the only one that I could think of.
There’s absolutely merit in suspecting gnarlycharlie at this point. And if it’s the last thing I’ll do, I’ll actually get off my ass and examine him and MentalGuy more closely.
I’m glad we’re in agreement on Hirka. I think there’s wide agreement on Hirka.
Red Skeezix is going to be harder to read than septimus, because his votes seemed obviously designed to bus his mates and give few clues. Red Skeezix is very awesome.
I’m a fan, for certain. Nobody beats me that hard and doesn’t earn my immediate admiration and respect.
In case I die before I wake:
- Hirka T’Bawa
- MentalGuy or gnarlycharlie (examine both, see which looks worse)
- Diver (sorry, still think there’s merit here. But not number 1 or 2.)
I’ll take a closer look at all these under the new light of Red Skeezix dying and flipping scum.
I would advise everyone to do the same, because at least one of us has to get it right. Different perspectives might light our path.
** And if we lynch a scumbag tomorrow, I request that pedescribe be put to death. I don’t want him alive regardless of alignment, especially if we can afford to flush him.**
I do want to know why Red bussed himself this round instead of going for choie.
His story about being remorseful was a lie, therefore he expected to gain something from his death.
Either he expected a strong sympathy vote against choie, or he was trying to bus himself so that choie would look good, or the move was designed to throw us off someone else we had been examining, or just to mess with us in general.
I’ve no idea which one it is, and I hate playing WIFOM guessing games with a scum as brilliant as Skeezix. I doubt I could get anyone to lynch choie with me anyway, so I’m just going to call it “good game” if she’s scum. Congratulations.
I’m not going to follow up on choie, and pray that the move was designed to make Red look innocent and it backfired, or it was to make someone who had been going after Red look more innocent. Not sure which.
i figured this was coming as soon as Red flipped scum. interesting how you now agree with Pizza’s assessment that i might be scum if Red flipped scum. now that Pizza is apologetic and all, you play nice with him and agree with him. feels like snuggling to me. i don’t regret voting for you. besides my suspicions of you, i believed Red’s claim. so did Inner Stickler but you’re not giving him grief. why, because he’s town? you’re sure of this? ah, because Pizza says so and you always believe what Pizza says, don’t you?
you think my voting record is spotty? i’d be surprised if any townie was able to correctly vote for scum everyDay. i agree with Pizza that you’re a smart cookie so invoking my voting record, free of unvotes and context, is not a smart assertion to make. it’s a scummy assertion.
i was desperate? for someone who knows the nuances of the English language well, that’s a strong word word to use. i’m sure you could have chosen similar meaning words but you chose that one. i admit i was trying to save Red but to characterize how i did it as desperate is just wrong.
you’re smart, maybe too smart for your own good.
you were wrong about Red. it wasn’t your first time and it won’t be your last. keep playing hard.
You may be the only one in the game who believes Red did that to spare choie, besides myself.
That said, do you really think we’ll get anyone to agree with that idea? I’m half-tempted to just roll over and let her have it (it’s not dirty unless you think it is).
i don’t know. i’m going to go down fighting. how would you feel if you rolled over now and found out that the remaining scum scum were your current suspects?
Like less of an idiot.
Still, what they did was a hell of a move. And seriously, choie as mafia would make me so proud. I’ve never had someone get inside my head and keep pushing away my direct suspicions of her like that, over and over again.
Sometimes I just want to make sure I’m losing to the right people. Hirka as scum doesn’t deserve a win here in my view, he’s made too many mistakes and he’s been called out on all of them. And they were easy to see if I had been looking for them all this time.
Yeah, I can see the move. Red gets bussed at long last, discrediting me in the process, huge blow to my full head of steam, choie comes out smelling like a rose. That’s good play. I can see the move but it’s also so good that I can’t tell if it’s a move or if choie is actually townie.
It fills me with a metric ton of doubt, and I don’t see there being much popular support for a choie lynch. Even if she’s scum, my best bet is to eliminate her remaining partner, so she’s fully isolated in the endgame with 2 active townies.
At that point, lynching her becomes a plausible action again, and there will be popular support for it. Either way, town or scum, I think I have to focus on other leads and hope I get lucky.
If choie can point the finger correctly on the remaining scum(s), that also makes her look good. This gives her a chance to win the game for the town before I’d have to insist on her death.