De'endee Mafia

Personally, I appreciate your jerkbagginess (which I truly don’t find jerkbaggy at all) and find it potentially useful in finding Scum.

Of course, I don’t have the best reputation, though I like to think I’ve mellowed.

However, you did encourage me to crunch some numbers on my own gameplay. Looking beyond just the record.

So I looked at all games which were o the more standard 1 Scum team variety (I basically took out 3 handed and Conspiracy games none of which I’ve ever won). My record on just Giraffe, Idlemafia and here. My record in those games is 17-25, which is actually much better than my over all record.

We don’t have records overall for all players, but still

[spoiler]42 games (17 wins, 25 losses) - Survived 8 times
Mafia: 7 games (1 wins, 6 losses) - Survived 0 times
Neutral: 3 games (0 wins, 3 losses) - Survived 0 times
Town: 32 games (16 wins, 16 losses) - Survived 8 times

Survival:
0.190

Wins
0.405
[/spoiler]

Which basically leads me to believe that I rarely survive. That probably has some influence over my 14% Scum record and 0% 3rd party record.

Laying down and rolling over is not attractive either. Stop doing that if you think you can help

I voted for you to get it out of my system. Watching and playing are different things. When I’m playing, I try not to vote for people based on play style, because just because someone isnt playing the way I think they should, doesn’t mean they are scum. But people can use style deliberately, to manipulate, or confuse. Such an aggressive response from you makes me want to run away and hide, and I wonder if you did that deliberately, so that I would leave you alone.

It seems to me like Silver Jan is posting just like she did last game here. She was scum then, but she totally had me going because I thought no one could be such a good actor. But it is not so much acting as just thinking about things in a different way, i.e. it is her style. That’s not enough for me to vote her at the moment, but it is making me uneasy (fool me once, …)

Ok, I am here and I don’t know what else to say, I don’t know how to change the way I play.

@ Weedy, when I play as scum I usually have stronger arguments even though my writing style may be the same.

I am not sure if I should say this but in the last game I played with Red he voted for me very early on and he ended up being scum while I was Town.

Maybe I should lock myself in with a second vote on choie because she is denigrating me for doing exactly what she is doing, this might come across as just being mean though.

so you feel that i am therefore more suspicious than Pizza? do you agree then with Pizza? am i the only one with who posts like this? this really is weak reasoning. i’ve seen this logic lynch Town more than scum. if my posts seem inadequate, it takes time for me to digest the sometimes long and convoluted posts here. your posts haven’t been spectacular either you know, a lot of agreeing with other people and commenting on mechanics.

[/QUOTE]

you like MentalGuy’s weak case? this is an even weaker vote.


interestingly enough, at the time of these two votes, this tied me with Septimus. this may be of interest later since right now it’s Silver Jan and Pizza who are numbers one and two in voting.

are you voting for Pizza because of the ‘obvious reasons’ phrase he used in voting Septimus? i believe Pizza was just using Septimus’ words against him.

there is actually a third vote scum theory. it’s in one of the wiki sites. personally, i doubt scum would use that argument as that theory is outdated.

i believe Silver Jan has 6 votes. ShadowFacts’ vote [575] may have been missed… or i may have missed an unvote.

USCDiver flip-flops without explaining why. seems like he’s just riding the bandwagon.
Vote USCDiver
Normal Phase votes me for the same reason MentalGuy votes me. his reasoning was weak. her agreement makes her reasoning even weaker. feels like an opportunistic vote. it also ties me with Septimus, which could be an attempt make two bandwagons.

Vote Normal Phase

I have a question for Special Ed, first you say I look scummy and then you say it looks like I am being coached. I can’t for the life of me see a scenario where scum would coach me to look scummy???

I’m voting for him because he asked to be lynched. I’m always happy to oblige a player who doesn’t want to stick around. I used the ‘obvious reason’ phrase as a joke because he’s emphasized it so many times.

**
Vote Count

Septimus(2): Askthepizzaguy, Askthepizzaguy,
ShadowFacts(2): Normal, Redskeezix
Gnarly(2): Mentalguy, Normal
Koldanar(2): Mentalguy, Lightfoot
Normal(3): Specialed, Choie, Gnarly
Askthepizzaguy(5):, Pedescribe, Pedescribe, Septimus, Weedy, USCDiver
Silver Jan(6): Choie, Shadowfacts, Specialed, Suburban, Redskeezix, Innerstickler,
Choie(2): SilverJan, Suburban
USCDiver(1): Gnarly

Silverjan is on the chopping block currently. **

This.

When she was scum last game, she made some votes for poor reasons, but what really got me were her unvotes: contrived and ungenuine described them nicely. She offered excuses for the unvote that seemed more to be trying to defend the original vote, for instance. The rationale behind the criticism she got that prompted the never seemed to be the real motive for the unvote.

Here’s her unvote of me from day one in this game:

This time, the unvote is for an appropriate reason, nor does she try to over-justify the original bad vote itself. Her behavior in this respect could not be more different than from last game. She’s either a VERY quick study of her own mistakes (and with a lot of self-discipline to boot – but then why leave herself open to what is happening to her now?), or she is not scum.

(I do have a minor concern that she could be sucking up in the wake of her vote on me and my criticism of her on another matter (I had criticized her giving Pedescribe a pass), but like ATPG I see nothing here that suggests she actually did so, nothing that looks fake.)

Her scum tells, that people are voting on, are superficial ones. She says “I’m a townie” too much (don’t remember her doing that as scum). She claimed when she didn’t need to. (didn’t do that either) She OMGUS voted. (If anything, she failed last game by NOT doing that; I was on her like white on rice, but all she did in response was to back away slowly with placating gestures, more or less. And I was in fact non-town!)

For someone who has very recently left substantial deep scum tells, and who is not doing that here, these votes feel misplaced. She could still be scum, but I’m up to a list of a half dozen people at least I’d rather see dead right now.

I don’t think ATPG is scum either, btw. He’s not showing a hint of stress, and he’s not slinging BS in the way I have seen him sling BS – if I know him in the least he’s enjoying the heck out of this right now. I’d guess third-party/PFK at worst, and probably townie.

And given none of you (save Romanic, get your butt in here Romanic) know my history with him at the .org, that opinion’s worth about as much as tits on a bull. If I wind up dead, though, and he hasn’t been lynched yet, maybe it’ll get a hearing.

Enough defending, time to go hunting.

Yes. Not all of them, of course, but for the most part.

What about the specific post you replied to here prompted this response?

Followup to ATPG’s post 599, re: Septimus. Some formatting adjusted.

How did you get from here to a casual “for obvious reasons” vote on ATPG, Septimus? You’re criticizing his approach to the game, but to what extent do you really believe him to be scum? Your vote is part of a bandwagon that looks capable of getting him lynched; do you really stand behind that vote? If so, why?

The comments from Texcat in 600 also need addressing, Septimus. I agree with the thrust of both of them, particularly the first: you explain to choie how your OMGUS votes have been bad in the past, but then you turn around and OMGUS ATPG, who just happens to be getting a lot of negative attention anyway at the moment. Particularly if Pedescribe is town, this looks bad.

The second comment I see differently from Texcat but still in a bad light: it doesn’t look so much like coziness between Septimus and choie to me, but more as snuggling from Septimus aimed at new player choie: giving the newbie advice and then complimenting a post which, while admirable in its openness, didn’t particularly have much else to admire about it.

Provisional
unvote gnarlycharlie
vote Septimus
pending full review of both gnarly and Shadow.

I’m not any more convinced by the Silver Jan case than I was yesterDay. I said in reference to pedescribe on Day One that unvoting when called on bad votes is a null tell. Silver Jan does have a tendency to make bad votes and retract them but I’m having difficulty seeing what the scum motivation behind her overall behaviour is. The impression I get is of someone who was confused about the gaming terms “level cap” and “NPC” and who hasn’t developed a scum-finding toolkit yet so tends to vote for inconsistencies rather than scum behaviours. (I wouldn’t worry about the latter - those of us with lovingly developed theories about what scum do and don’t do and don’t don’t do tend not to boast a 100% success rate, to put it mildly).

Pizza is next on the chopping block. This is more complex so I’m going to try to break it down for myself:

Against Pizza:
Essentially, the whole “I look like scum, but if you vote for me you’re the real scum” schtick. Hypothetically, a scum Pizza who adopted this pose would have a) given himself licence to be as inconsistent and hypocritical as he wanted and b) pre-emptively deterred anybody who considered voting for him with the threat of an aggressive OMGUS campaign. By contrast, if your whole plan is to look scummy in an attempt to lure scum votes, it would be best not to loudly announce this plan to all and sundry. At this point, I’m wondering if there’s a super secret real plan which is to lynch people that don’t vote for him on the grounds that scum would be afraid of drawing his fire.

There are other inconsistencies which have been pointed out by others (e.g. over double voting) but inconsistency isn’t necessarily scummy. (Although at root, all scum are forced to be inconsistent - to pretend they want what Town wants when they don’t.) It’s the overarching justification for any and all vote-drawing behaviour, coupled with the pre-emptive UberOMGUS that really give me pause.

For Pizza:
His analysis of Silver Jan. It’s long and detailed. It concludes that she’s likely Town. Given that she’s his close rival for the lynch, it would have been more self-interested to do a long analysis that concluded she was scum, or if he wanted to conclude she was town in order to look selfless and noble, to do so without putting all of her posts in one place to be read and going through them in detail to make his case. He wouldn’t, after all, want to be too convincing. Reading back, he did something similar with Kelly when he was close to him for the lead.

His self-confidence. He comes across as a player who’s backing his own play pretty heavily, and who isn’t going to modify that to keep people sweet. Scum tend naturally to be circumspect and avoid tall poppy syndrome. The attitude could be an elaborate bluff, as I discussed above, but I doubt that anyone could keep it up too long. We’d start to see some self-preservation behaviour at some point with the vote pressure, and there doesn’t seem to be any. (I don’t mean the “ok, lynch me if you have to” stuff, I mean a genuine change of pace or tone.)
On balance, I’m leaning slightly town on Pizza. It’s tough, because not having played with him I have that itchy feeling that I might be being suckered, but I think that most of what he’s done to raise my hackles has been due to play-style rather than any pro-Scum behaviour.
So who does that leave?

I didn’t like USCDivers’ votes before, and I don’t love his fairly unreasoned, non-scum-hunting vote for pizza now. But I really don’t like Mental Guy’s case on gnarlycharlie. Gnarly did a good job of refuting it, and the fact that Mental’s case can be so easily reflected back on him makes me wonder if there’s an element of transference:

vote Mental Guy

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